Forest Road 594 #201 Posted February 20, 2016 Outstanding job! I have a 522xi w a Kwik way loader as well. It's made many tasks much more enjoyable. I run cast iron wheel weights. I seem to have a slow leak in one rear tire. For approx $40 tire in having them loaded w foam rubber. Currently it has approx 300 lbs ballast hanging outback. If only they were designed w a locking diff. Congrats! It looks perfect! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #202 Posted February 20, 2016 On February 19, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Snowmobileaddict said: The only video I have is the one of it running inside my outbuilding. Its been somewhat of a low/no-snow winter here in SE WI. No real snow to clear up since I finished the loader and really not much for me to do with it in the yard till spring rolls around. 55F and chance rain today. I must be getting old, I forgot about this video. I couldn't figure out why you hadn't shown it working. Looking up parts costs for hydraulics. Wow, those cylinders aren't cheap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #203 Posted February 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said: I must be getting old, I forgot about this video. I couldn't figure out why you hadn't shown it working. Looking up parts costs for hydraulics. Wow, those cylinders aren't cheap Yeah. Hydros eats into budget FAST. Super easy to get into the 1G territory with cylinders, pump, filtration and plumbing. I think it was worth the wait to come across a good kwik way project loader. I was on the hunt on and off for about 4 years till I lucked out. All-in on this project I'm at $1200. That's with a brand new $250 bucket from CTC. 10 hours ago, Forest Road said: Outstanding job! I have a 522xi w a Kwik way loader as well. It's made many tasks much more enjoyable. I run cast iron wheel weights. I seem to have a slow leak in one rear tire. For approx $40 tire in having them loaded w foam rubber. Currently it has approx 300 lbs ballast hanging outback. If only they were designed w a locking diff. Congrats! It looks perfect! Thanks Forest. It was a very fun project with very few snags along the way. I hope that my thread helps others in the same situation of adapting a KW FEL to a 5xi. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #204 Posted February 20, 2016 On November 30, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Snowmobileaddict said: Well, I ended up throwing down today on this "Cyber Monday" for the second-most expensive part of this loader build, the pump. After much research, I found out that the pump that Kwik-Way shipped with these loaders isn't actually a hydraulic gear pump by name at all. Its actually a hydraulic gear motor. What's the difference you might ask? Well, not that much provided its a gear-type unit with check valves. The primary difference has to do with how the shaft is supported in the power unit housing and the number of bolts that are used to fasten the unit to an assembly. Most all hydraulic gear motors have ball-bearing supported shaft that make side-loads acceptable in the assembly. Most run of the mill gear pumps do not have this and are only supported by sintered bronze journal bearings and will not tolerate much side-load force. Side load force is imposed on this application because it is belt drive, not a shaft mount love-joy or flex coupling as shown below: Having a ball-bearing supported input shaft is why Kwik-Way chose to spec the MTE B304 Pump unit for these loader applications. Wait, I just called it a pump, when its not actually a pump. That's right. today, when you source a pump built by MTE, you actually source it through their distributor, Delta-Power http://www.delta-power.com/ and of course, Delta changes the name and the model number and calls that particular "pump" a gear motor. In the Delta catalog, the stock "pump" that came with the 5xi loader is actually a model DM21 which is the B304 MTE unit. It is pictured below. And yes, the way they are made, you could hook it up to a pressurized line at it would work as a hydraulic motor. This unit does about 6 GPM at 1500 psi at target application RPM with a 6.5" pulley. This represents running the unit on a 5xi at 1:1 ratio. It's available at a couple of sites for sale for about $230 plus shipping: https://www.hydraulicstore.com/index.php?loc=items_detail&data[catalog]=1&data[itemcode]=6104031 http://www.airlinehyd.com/webpages/orderonline/manufacturersearch.aspx?item_number=D21 Ever on the bargain hunt, I knew that with more than one pump option available, I might realize some savings, especially if I can score something discounted new or even good used condition on ebay. After careful review of the pump specs at Delta's website, I found that the D21 pump has basically identical specs, physical size, ports, psi, displacement, etc. It even has a ball bearing supported shaft. Really the only difference is that it is 2 bolt mount instead of 4-bolt mount which is why I had a pump mount laser cut with my order earlier this month in case I lucked out and sourced one. Lo and behold, there was a new D21 for sale out of Maryland on ebay. The auction was buy it now for $200 plus $16 ship, but had a make offer option. We went back and forth a couple times and settled at $185 plus $16 ship. Here is a photo of the pump: And here is a spec sheet This pump will fit right into my pump carrier assembly and will have plenty of room for adjustment for belt tension and routing of input and output hoses. Most importantly, it will be durable in a belt driven, side loaded environment. I'm sure many readers will breeze through this post and say, "Whoa! this guy overpaid for his loader pump. Ha! Guess he didn't know about www.surpluscenter.com ." Yes, there are more than a few pumps for sale at surplus center in the $100 - $135 range. They might even meet the spec of the ~5-6gpm @ 1500 PSI with the target RPM. However, without an outboard ball bearing supporting the input shaft, the pump will not last as long as the manufacturer intended it to. The journal bearings will wear in a side-load situation, and eventually the pump will start to leak at the shaft. If you try to reduce side load to limit that wear, the belt will slip on the sheave and overheat or wear grooves into them. That is a trade-off I was not willing to accept for this build. What are your thoughts on this pump?http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329712_200329712?isSearch=10567 According to the manual below, it does have bearings " Specifications Cast iron hydraulic pump, bi-rotational, 4-bolt 4F17 mounting, 11 tooth gears, 1.50” shaft extension, 0.50” shaft diameter with 0.125” square x 1” drive key, side porting with SAE straight thread ports, internally lubricated ball bearing for side loads to 150 lbs. " http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/10567.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #205 Posted February 20, 2016 That pump would be a good option. You'd probably want to run a slightly smaller pump pulley than I did to get the pump rpm up to the rated 4000 rpm. The only difference I can see is that the gpm might be around 1 gallon per min less than the Delta pump that I used and that Kwikway shipped with their loaders from the factory. it probably won't make much difference in cylinder cycle time though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #206 Posted February 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Snowmobileaddict said: That pump would be a good option. You'd probably want to run a slightly smaller pump pulley than I did to get the pump rpm up to the rated 4000 rpm. The only difference I can see is that the gpm might be around 1 gallon per min less than the Delta pump that I used and that Kwikway shipped with their loaders from the factory. it probably won't make much difference in cylinder cycle time though. Specs say Flow at 3600 RPM: 8.0 GPM That isn't enough? Looking at my PF Engineering plans that is the pump they recommend. What RPM does the Delta produce 6 GPM? I can't find those specs online Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #207 Posted February 20, 2016 Oh I looked at the specs on the northern tool site. they read 4.8 gpm at 4000 rpm i didn't see the 8gpm at 3600 rpm spec. The kwikway pumps (delta/mte) are 6gpm at 3600 rpm. Nevermind i looked at the other spec sheet its 4 gpm at 1800 rpm and 8 gpm at 3600 rpm thats a good pump. youd want to tailor the pulley ratio to be around 6gpm. 8 gpm might be a bit much. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #208 Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) My pump is the D21 Edited July 12, 2017 by Snowmobileaddict Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #209 Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Snowmobileaddict said: My pump is the D21 Yeah, I couldn't find one at first, then finally did at $230. I would have ordered that if the one I found wasn't enough. I wish i knew knew more about hydraulics, picking the actuators is tough. There are tons that meet the specs, but not sure which to get. PF Engineering recommends tie rod type for some reason, but yours are welded. These seem to match the specs, but not sure why they specified tie rod http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Cylinders/Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinders/2x16x1-125-DA-HYD-CYL-LION-20LH16-112-3000-PSI-9-8260-16.axd Edited February 20, 2016 by WNYPCRepair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #210 Posted February 22, 2016 On February 5, 2016 at 7:08 AM, cleat said: @cleat A couple of questions, if you don't mind. The bucket position indicator, did you use tubing, or is that solid rod? It looks great, by the way, nice workmanship. The dump actuator attaches differently than the Kwik-Way, do you know of any video of it dumping? I am curious to see how it affects dumping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #211 Posted February 22, 2016 On January 3, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Snowmobileaddict said: You got the welding down pat, I see, that looks great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleat 4,984 #212 Posted February 22, 2016 10 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said: @cleat A couple of questions, if you don't mind. The bucket position indicator, did you use tubing, or is that solid rod? It looks great, by the way, nice workmanship. The dump actuator attaches differently than the Kwik-Way, do you know of any video of it dumping? I am curious to see how it affects dumping. I can try and get a video made later but for now, that is solid 3/8" rod heated and bent to make the little "V" in it to indicate bucket is level when flat on the ground. I used a 90 degree tube fitting for the bottom but a 90 degree bend in the tube with a cotter key on both sides to hold it level and even would work just as well. I used Stainless steel because I had some but regular carbon steel would work just as well. Bracket is just a piece of angle iron with 2 slots cut into it. One for the indication and one for adjustment. I drilled a 3/8" hole into the bucket dump bracket for the bottom connection, you could just drill into the bracket on the bucket itself. For the upper attachment I just drilled and tapped for a 3/8" bolt in the loader frame itself. Then fully dump the bucket to determine total length of rod required, it needs to stay in the guide. When the bucket is flat on the ground and sitting perfectly level the indicator rod will be sitting in the center of the bent in "V". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #213 Posted February 22, 2016 1 hour ago, cleat said: I can try and get a video made later Thanks, I found video, it doesn't really seem to give more speed or more travel. I was wondering why the two extra pieces. I thought maybe it made a difference, but if it does, it isn't noticeable. Still debating building a loader, or just buying one. Just doing quick figures in my head, but it looks like I would be close to the cost of a new loader to build one, and can buy one on a tractor for less. But if I build one, it is brand new. Decisions, decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #214 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Got some more decals on the loader last night. Its really looking the part now. The safety decals were a good fit and the Kwik-Way repro decal looks great too. The camera doesn't capture the Kwik-Way decal very well though. It looks awesome in person. Edited July 12, 2017 by Snowmobileaddict 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinylguy 4,666 #215 Posted February 22, 2016 Magnificent!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinylguy 4,666 #216 Posted February 22, 2016 This tunnel safety decal is still available thru partstree.com Probably wont be in a few years. Going to try to find a good one to scan at the Big Show just in case. 36 minutes ago, Snowmobileaddict said: Got some more decals on the loader last night. Its really looking the part now. The safety decals were a good fit and the Kwik-Way repro decal looks great too. The camera doesn't capture the Kwik-Way decal very well though. It looks awesome in person. Try an existing light shot. the flash can wash out the brighter colors of a glossy finish decal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #217 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) This one I took with my DSLR, no flash. The others were no-flash with my iphone 6. It must be the fluorescent shop lighting not cooperating. I bet it will look better in daylight... Edited July 12, 2017 by Snowmobileaddict 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #218 Posted February 22, 2016 Definitely a fine piece of workmanship you can be proud of. It has inspired me, that is for sure. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinylguy 4,666 #219 Posted February 22, 2016 19 minutes ago, Snowmobileaddict said: This one I took with my DSLR, no flash. The others were no-flash with my iphone 6. It must be the fluorescent shop lighting not cooperating. I bet it will look better in daylight... That explains it. Again CONGRATS on an amazing build. Photo enhanced to bring out the color gamma closer to the true decal colors 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #220 Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks Terry. That retouched photo is spot-on. Your decals made the build complete! Andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #221 Posted February 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Vinylguy said: This tunnel safety decal is still available thru partstree.com Probably wont be in a few years. Going to try to find a good one to scan at the Big Show I just ordered one, if it is really available, I'll scan it and email it to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinylguy 4,666 #222 Posted February 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, Snowmobileaddict said: Thanks Terry. That retouched photo is spot-on. Your decals made the build complete! Andy Thanks Andy but it is just a dot on the I. Your fabrication work was the real magic. 5 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said: I just ordered one, if it is really available, I'll scan it and email it to you. sometimes they show an item available when it is not. If it comes scan it at 300 DPI as a pdf file. Thanks Terry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowmobileaddict 403 #223 Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/20/2016 at 4:02 PM, WNYPCRepair said: These seem to match the specs, but not sure why they specified tie rod http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Cylinders/Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinders/2x16x1-125-DA-HYD-CYL-LION-20LH16-112-3000-PSI-9-8260-16.axd Not sure why they go with tie-rod either. Bailey hydraulics has a good selection of loader cylinders here: http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/ghost/Ghost,Individual/prodcat/Hydraulic-Cylinders/type/Loader-Cylinder There are probably some that would be a good fit. They are mostly welded cylinders I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #224 Posted February 22, 2016 I'll save the link, though I think I am leaning towards buying a tractor with loader. It would be fun to build one, and who knows, someday maybe I will, but I want one for spring, and I don't think I will get it done by then. I'm sure if I have an extra loader, I will be able to get rid of it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #225 Posted February 24, 2016 I was all set for a road trip to buy a tractor with loader. Saw an ad on CL for one of these:http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/4/1/3416-john-deere-3203.html If you look at the attachments tab, it has the info on the loader included. I found it, looked up the info, went back to get the contact info and it had been deleted. I'm pretty sure it is because he left a zero off. It was listed for $2500 Maybe it was supposed to be $12,500, or $25,000, but $2500 was definitely a mistake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
