Jump to content
Achto

400 Hub & Axle

Recommended Posts

Achto

Hi every one, I have an idea that I wanted to bounce off you guys. I started taking the tranny apart on my Suburban 400 and found that the axle and hub key way are wore. My idea is to cut key way whole length of the exposed part of the axle and use a square key the same width as the hub. I also would drill and tap a set screw hole in the hub over the key way. (Not sure why they didn't place a set screw there from the factory). My thought is this would allow the good part of the key way in the hub to be utilized. Anyone think this will work or would it be a wast of time?
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

It would work just fine and is a good idea. Most don't have the capabilities of cutting the slot though. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

I'm confused...isn't the set screw in your hub already over the existing key way?  The half moon key and where the hub tightens on it is supposed to keep the hub from sliding off.  Your straight key with the set screw on it is good, but I think you will want to drill and tap for another set screw at 90 degrees to take on the axle.  :)  Correct me if I am mis-understanding your original post.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

No Steve, it's the same on my 400. The set screw isn't over the key way. I thought it might be a 3 lug hub thing but I have another pair of 3 lug hubs and the set screw is over the key way on those. :confusion-shrug:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wallfish

Hmmmm, that's interesting and will now take a look at all my hubs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

I'm going to see if the part numbers are cast in my hubs tomorrow. I'd like to see if it can be narrowed down as to which 3 studs were on what. I suspect that sometime after 1960 they found out that it was better to tighten down on the key. Ain't this stuff fun? :banana-explosion:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Achto

Thanks for your opinions guys. I'm not an engineer but I have wondered why they choose to go with a short half moon key instead of utilizing the entire surface of the key way in the hub.
Next step for me will be to get the axles set up on the mill and cut some new key ways. I will post some pics when i get them done. The casting number on my hubs is 357.

Edited by achto
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut

The only rational reason for the set screw not having been placed over the key would be that it is the thinnest, and therefor the weakest point on the casting. You may want to drill a shallow hole in the axle under the set screw too.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
bean

I had an axle that was worn and did a simpler fix. I drilled a 3/8" hole through the hub and axle and used a 3/8" drift pin. it worked fine, but was a low hp tractor. I wouldn't try it with a 4-16 with 26x12x12 tires

DSC06889.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Looks like Bean's is #3574...I'm guessing his set screw hole is over the key.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

The 3 hole hubs on my 400 are stamped 3574 and the set screw is about 90 off the key. The other pair I have with the set screw on the key don't have a number on them.:eusa-think:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
bean

I had a set of suburban hubs on my rj and the set screw wasn't over the shaft key
the hub in the pic is from an 854
I think wheel horse got away from the suburban style hub quickly, because it had a tendency to move on the shaft

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

That's interesting bean but probably not original to the 854. They had 5 lugs. Knowing that most all of the cast parts back then has numbers I just now took a scrub brush to the 3 lug hubs that I said didn't have a number. Sure enough, I was able to make out the number. Another pair of 3574 hubs. So there you have it. Two pairs of hubs marked 3574, one with the set screw on the key way, one with it about 90 off. More Wheel Horse inconsistency. :rolleyes: This really didn't surprise me. Over the years I've seen many parts that were designed different but had the same number on them. Often the difference was more than just a set screw hole relocated.
The second set of 3574's were on one of the tractors recently given to me. The other had 5 lug hubs. The tractors are a 657 and a 500 Special. According to the original parts list both should have 5 lug hubs  Obviously switched out.

Edited by Racinbob
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Bob, you are starting to sound like you know what you are talking about...how flat is your hoodie-doobie??  :ychain:  :)

I would speculate that the  #3574 hubs were ordered by the hundreds and keyed and drilled out at the factory.  So, maybe all 3 hole hubs are #3574 and some where, along the way, a wily supervisor came up behind some guy and said..."Buckman, what the hell are you doing?  ""
Buckman..."drilling out the #3574 hubs Sir!"
Supervisor..."Buckman, like an idiot, you are drilling the set screw hole in the wrong place...it is supposed to be on the key way!"  "Now you look at this engineered drawing and fix what you are doing wrong."  "I'll be back at 1100 hundred hours and you had better have this squared away...do you know what time 1100 hundred hours is Buckman? "
Buckman..."It's 1 hour past 1000 hundred hours Sir."

:)

Edited by stevasaurus
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob
:D My hoobie-doobie is worn out from all the trips to the garage.

Now I'm sitting here going through the old dealers manual and service notes and I may have hit on something. I know they are really drawings but it's very clear in the drawings that through 1962 the set screw was 90 degrees off the hub. From 1963 on the set screw is on the key. Not conclusive but pretty darn good evidence that Buckman was fired late in 62. Edited by Racinbob
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut

Poor Buckman, his supervisor didn't realize that he was just giving us something to talk about 53 years later.    :ychain:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

If you do not know who Buchman is, you need to watch this...this is from "Down Periscope"...one of my favorite movies.  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqts74xfyvc

If this does not sell you on watching this movie  check this link..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c8UwwOgWt0

Edited by stevasaurus
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

I didn't know Steve. Now I've gotta watch that movie. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
MalMac

Late to the show here, but it's one of my favorite movies too. As far as one of the reasons a half moon was cut instead of a full length slot for a square key is, it is much cheaper in the production scheme of things just to make a plunge cut than a slot being milled all the way down. It may be only a matter of seconds. Time is money and when a few hundred are be cut it all adds up. After watching engineers and machinist and time management pencil pushers duke it out. The time cost analysis  people always win out over  engineers and machinist. Real looser is the customer. Not saying this is what happen here in this instance, I was not there. Just saying this is what might have happen.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
mikekot3

Thats a purdy fernee mooveee rite deere !!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Achto

Got my key ways cut new bearings, & bushings and wrapped the whole thing up at 18ft lbs.:)

horse tranny.jpg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
WHX??

Looks nice, it should have been done that way 53 years ago. . After doing Bob's axle flip on one of my 400's it seems like the hub side half moon slot has more slop than it did before. The inside keys were wore but replacing them only helped a little. The slots are worn so this may be the answer. The inside drive gear was nice and snug on it's woodruff after the flip so I didn't give much thought to the hub side at the time. I did have damage to the inside drive gears so I am thinking that thats what wore on the former inside keys/slots.  I don't remenber if my hub set screw was on the key or not, will have to look. Without the set screw tight there I have a good 1/16" movement of the hub on the axle.

Were you able to have them machined without disassembling the the whole tranny? Does the hub have the full lenght slot too? Where did you have the machining done Acto...maybe take mine there if need be.

Good movie ..having done seven patrols on submarines I get it!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Racinbob

Yes Jim, the hubs have a full length slot. they have to so they can slide on the axle over the key. I really like that axle slot. :handgestures-thumbupright:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

 I think that slot is going to do the trick for you.  :handgestures-thumbupright:  Trans looks great.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
squonk

That Marty dude is just like the plumber at work! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...