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KevinG

Possible d250 buy

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KevinG

Hey guys, im looking at a d250 and was wondering what you guys think. It looks rouph but it runs and drives. it also doesn't have the fenders on it, the guy believes he has them but isnt 100%. It comes with a 50in plow and a john deere stamped aluminium 60in deck that he got to fit. He also put some custom weight box on it that "does its purpose but doesnt look pretty". He is asking $1000 for it, what do you guys think. I am by no means a D series expert which is why im asking

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953 nut

If you want a "Big Boy Toy" the D250 is it in the :wh: family. You don't see too many of them for sale and the asking price isn't really out of line if that is what you want and he finds the fenders etc.. It is a bit big for mowing the average yard, but if you have a lot to mow it will definitely handle that and it will push a lot of snow. Fenders can be found on :techie-ebay: but it would be nice to have everything that is supposed to be there.

Make him an offer that you can live with, you would probably have to travel a long way to find another one. Keep us posted.

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stevebo

The john deere deck is actually made for that machine. IMO I would rather stay away from it. 

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DennisThornton

I have heard that parts can be an issue.
The Wheel Horse D-250 was built by Gutbrod of Germany, and was similar to the Gutbrod 2500S.
Renault 800-01
gasoline
4-cylinder
liquid-cooled
852 cc [52ci ] 
Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear RPM:    1000
Mid RPM:    1500
Hydraulics:
Capacity:    0.65 gal [2.5 L] 
Pressure:    2100 psi [144.8 bar] 
Total flow:    2.14 gpm [8.1 lpm] 

Clippings from those who know, and I quote:
D250's are a strange breed. They were Wheel Horse's Edsel and were a true international effort. American specs, German design, French engine, Italian steering gearbox....

They were extremely advanced for their time, but were sales flops. In 1976 1000 units were imported and sold over the next two years. 1978 brought in another 500 of a revised model, then 1979 brought another 500 of the improved version. WH listed them in the product listings into the early 1980's, so they weren't flying off the shelf. They even began to promote special credit terms, freebies, and rental store sales to move them.

Anyway, the 1976 model is distinguished by its generator (as opposed to an alternator), single action hydraulics, and weaker transaxle. The 1978/79's had dual action hydraulics with 4 couplers on the front under the grille, an alternator, and a slightly revised transaxle mounting and linkage that greatly improved reliability. The dashboard on the 78/79's was also revised and improved and the engagement for the PTO moved from a foot pedal to a lever.

The three point hitch on the 76's was not fitted with spherical bearing "eyes" on the draft links. Instead the lower hitch arms were just punched to accept the pins from the implement. Later model hitches had the eyes that were standard on every other three point hitch ever made...

The 1976's in particular were plagued with self-destructing transaxles...especially when used for tilling or heavy ground work like plowing or loading. I don't reacall the entire set of peculiars, but the general explanation is that poor lubricant or low levels combined with excessive load caused the internal axle bushings to wear. The axle/differential would sag or move around a little bit and the worm gear teeth wouldn't mesh properly. Catastrophic failure would then result since the worm gear was made (as are most worm gears) of relatively soft bronze. The teeth would shear and the whole tranaxle would fail.

Warranty replacements were apparently a huge cost for WH and Gutbrod. A real nightmare according to guys who were there at the time.

In 1978 the revisions were slight - and again I don't remember everything - but the improvement was significant. I think the linkage was improved to make shifting more positive and engaged the gearing better. But the bottom end benefitted by a revised mounting angle of the transaxle housing to the frame that caused loads to be transferred internally differently. So the trans was much more durable. But still, if used too heavily they too were prone to letting go.

One of the really critical things about their problems was the location of the oil fill plug in the transaxle housing. Going from memory, I think it's on the right hand side of the transaxle behind the right rear tire. To check the fluid, you almost have to remove the wheel. To fill the fluid, you might as well tip the tractor on its side since the framerail immediately above the check/fill port basically blocks access to the thing. So, many people neglected to check and maintain the transaxle. Coupled with the marginal design and high precision...you get the idea.

Would I mow with one? Yep. Just be very anal about transaxle maintenance.

Would I plow/blade with one? No.

Would I run a tiller? No. Loader? No way!

Apparently the tiller, which is pretty hard to find anyway, really was rough on these things. I'm not sure mechanically why, but I guess the constant pushing and pounding was hard on the axle and exacerbated the problems. In the old days before Redsquare, it wasn't uncommon to find random internet posts about blown D250 rears on tiller-equipped tractors.

Really, the D250 was a precesion engineered piece of equipment. Unfortunately it was introduced into a market and dealer network that lacked the finesse required to keep 'em going and didn't even have the metric tools needed to work on them. The combinations of the machine's fussiness and bad maintenance and abuse probably did most of them in. I'm under the impression that dealers hated them.

And man were they expensive. Like $5k in 1976.

Charlie (Charlies D250) used his D250 extensively and even ran it in tractor pulls (I think). I know he complete disassembled and rebuilt his prior to any of this, so perhaps his was in perfect tune, a good one, or he was just lucky. Maybe he made some mods. Anyway, he ought to be on your contact list.

Now, I really like the Edsels. They are very smooth running, quiet, and extremely powerful. The Renault engine used was rated at 19.9 hp, but the same engine configuration in other applications (Groundsmasters, forklifts, etc) cranked out 35+ hp. Same carb, timing, governor, etc. So the 19.9 hp rating was probably just a lie to get around the regulations that required seatbelts and ROPS.

The 60" deck from the JD 400 used on these tractors mows beautifully and pumps a tremendous amount of air.

The original intent was for the D250 to be an "estate" tractor. All it was supposed to do was mow and clear snow. But the size and power meant the desire to use it heavily was too great. So they got used as compact utility tractors.

Fuel pumps on the engines tend to go bad over time as any mechanical/camshaft driven pump is apt to do. The Renault replacement is (or was last time I cared to look) hard to find and expensive, so replace it with an electric one if it dies. Other than occasionally on ebay, I've never seen a rebuild kit for the Solex carburator. Points, cap, and rotor are hard to find but I think Charlie has a source. By the way, I think one

of the spark plugs cannot be taken out without removing the distributor...if I remember correctly.

The ignition switch on the 76's is goofy with a really special key...push the key in to enable the ignition. Pull it out to shut it off. Rotate it one click for parking lights. A second click for headlights. I think the 78's have a more conventional switch.

Waterpumps aren't a bad quality or bad design, but at this age they often go bad. I've been seeing them periodically on ebay, so somebody must have found a source. If you see one, buy it.

The front/mid PTO shaft also serves double duty as the front axle pivot. Bearings here often get sloppy. Duane Baerpath knows how to replace them and I thought posted a source on here at one point.

What else....

That's about the whole brain dump for now.

If you want to rely on one for a weekly chore tractor I think you need to prepare yourself to be patient and creative. These aren't supported by WH anymore, so parts aren't really available. Engine parts can probably be found since Continental picked up the Renault industrial line a while back. But transmission stuff is extinct. Deere probably still has deck parts. The only differences between a 400 deck and a 250 deck are the hangers. Everything else is carryover from the Deere.
____________________________________________________________

That said I would love to have one but I would not want to count on it nor not have some money held back to fix things.  Maybe a lot of money held back.  

But wait for more from those who have first hand experience!
 

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blu_stang

Let me first offer, that I am the proud owner of one of the early model D250s. I've had it for a year and a half and is one tough tractor. But, I don't think it is the right tractor for everyone.

It really falls into the super garden tractor or SCUT class. So, it's heavier and stronger than most garden tractors. In line with this, it is naturally more expensive to maintain and run. For me, this is what I expected, and I haven't regretted my decision. I do use the tractor, I put about 20 hours on it this year, but I do also have a newer large Husqvarna for my daily mowing and snowblowing chores. The Husqvarna tractor itself, that supports a 54" deck or 42" snowblower, is about 2/3 the size and 1/2 the weight of the D250.

The model you are looking at is one of the later models. I can tell because it has the tall lever on the left side, in front of the dash. That lever engages the front PTO. The earlier models used a pedal on the outside of the floor board on the same side for this function.

The most difficult things to replace will be anything on the transaxle. The major parts are not available anymore, except from sales like this, or piecewise at an event or online. The seals, bearings and hardware can all be sourced from a decent industrial powertrain distributor.

The engine is not so bad to find parts for. All or almost all of the parts can be purchased new. It and derivatives of it were used in other tractors, forklifts and other industrial applications of the era. When I last checked, tune up parts can be sourced (ordered) through NAPA.

Probably the biggest thing to note about my D250 ownership is that I can't expect people to do the work for me. I have fully become my own mechanic and I supply my own parts through online auctions, European sellers and local specialty shops. The parts list and repair manuals have been my greatest resources, aside from posts and conversations on this forum.

Hopefully, this helps provide some insight for you to decide if it is a good tractor for you.

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fast88pu

I seen that one . Stop at the casino while your up there to try your luck

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KevinG

Thanks for all the info guys, learned a lot. I will have to think about this one for a little bit, if I get it I will be sure to put some pictures up

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Jolopicus

My friend, if you can wrench you'll love this machine. I've been using mine for 7 months now, nearly daily. Mine came with the Ark bucket loader with separate hydraulic system mounted to the front. The thing I love about this machine is that it's very workable. It's not a bobcat, but I've moved about 20tons worth of MN mud and muck, then brought in another 10~15 tons of road base, and slowly but surely done so with the 250. The renault engine is a beast. It is tuned down significantly from factory to meet whatever laws there were at the time. I've opened mine up. custom intake, aftermarket filter, proper adjustments to the carb and regulator. It has class 1 leaks, but that's normal for something that old. I've got the wheel weights, but could probably use an additional 250lbs on the three point if I find the time to build something for it. I've also got a d180, which is also a beast in and of itself, but it just doesn't have the power and weight of the 250. Personally I prefer the manual tranny over the hydro, it creeps wonderfully better, requires nearly no adjustment and thus far is much more reliable regarding moving the levers and getting the speed/power you expect. I find the hydro on the 180 is there but you've really gotta get the rev's up to pull/push/lift. With the 250 you just lug a little like a diesel and it'll pull through. for 1k, as long as it's free and drive's it's a great deal! I paid close to 3k for mine with new rubber, ark loader and some updates to the pump system. 

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953 nut

I see that this D-250 is on          :techie-ebay:     seeking a $ 999 starting bid!

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123GO

 I wanted an ol' D250 last year, well for a minute..lol

 After reading about endless searches of hard parts especially for the problem prone transaxles (mentioned again here) I suddenly woke right up!  (Rarely happens before my wife's tongue lashing for my buying another big p.o.c. again. I must be getting wiser with age.. lol). 

  I also read elsewhere they don't menuver around very well do to steering limitations but idk this personally?

Would be great to have one around to play on but it sounds like an investment I'd be too worried about using much, just zaps the fun out of ownership if its sitting while I'm endlessly searching & heavily spending to boot. 

I do wish every D owner all the luck in the world in keeping them around forever though!  Excellent part of WH history.

  • Haha 1

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Pollack Pete

I had two of them until last year.One was complete and running fine.One complete for parts.Had two mower decks,one snow blade and one snow blower.They were taking up a lot of indoor real estate and was thinning the herd a little and sold the whole package for the price of the one you're looking at.Had it advertised here and got zero interest.So…….I personally don't think a grand is any kind of a great deal for just one.Only my opinion.

Edited by Pollack Pete
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953 nut
5 hours ago, 123GO said:

I suddenly woke right up!  (Rarely happens before my wife's tongue lashing for my buying another big p.o.c. again. I must be getting wiser with age.. lol).

:hilarious:

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