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Horse46

K341 rebuild questions

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I managed a bit of Horse play today, I got it running, well up to a point, so here's my question.

 I have set the points but it still isn't running right, it won't tick over or even close, it's back firing.

how do I know I've got tdc, the points seem to be open a long time, an I'm sure it's the timing?

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Ok a bit more progress.

I have it running without back firing, it revs cleanly but i cant get it to run at low revs. Any ideas?

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is it stalling?  It can only be fuel or spark if you are happy with the timing.  It may well be a really worn carb thats chattering about and drawing in more air.

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Hi Mark,

I've read a bit more about how critical point gap can be, so I'm going to try an nail them first.

The carb was set and running fine before the strip down so I'm doubtful its the carb, I won't rule it out though. I just need to get it running right to bed it back in, and re torque the head.

When I try to lower the revs it just cuts out.

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On 3/16/2016 at 4:21 AM, Horse46 said:

Ok a bit more progress.

I have it running without back firing, it revs cleanly but i cant get it to run at low revs. Any ideas?

 

Remember that according to the service manual, low revs is about 1100 to 1200 RPM. Anything lower will not allow for proper lubrication.

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I can't get near that I reckon probs around 2k or more is best I can get it down to. 

Not had a chance to have another go yet, too busy.

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ok got back out there today, not any better after a bit more tinkering.

So it starts easy enough, I can get it to rev clean enough, and there is very little back fire on throttle down. 

It will run on a high tick over for about 10-15 secs then it dies.

My exhaust was blowing, and I have cured this as best I can for now (need new clamp) this did make a bit of a difference.

Any ideas, I'm stumped ?

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What kind if tachometer are you using? Is it calibrated? May not be the engine,  could be the tools.

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I'm not using one, I know what it should sound like.

My problem is trying to get it to run at lower revs than it is now.

That's not meant to sound rude,(just read it back)

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 7:43 AM, Horse46 said:

ok got back out there today, not any better after a bit more tinkering.

So it starts easy enough, I can get it to rev clean enough, and there is very little back fire on throttle down. 

It will run on a high tick over for about 10-15 secs then it dies.

My exhaust was blowing, and I have cured this as best I can for now (need new clamp) this did make a bit of a difference.

Any ideas, I'm stumped ?

Make sure you have the governor hooked up correctly, If it is you may have a vacuum leak.

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 This is getting me down now, I've re checked the governor and reset the points, it starts almost instantly, it will run for about 20-30 seconds and then it stalls.

To get it to run again I have to introduce the choke but knock it straight back to off or just under half . It will run just as before but again cuts out.

If i get it started I can keep it running by keeping the revs up.

I've thought it could be fuel starvation but surely it would cut out even if I were to hold the throttle open, so I kinda ruled that out.

Any help would appreciated as I've draw a blank, and I'm fed up having to wheel it back into the garage with no idea where to go next.:(

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It's still a fuel issue, I doubt the spark is stopping or the timing is changing. So there is little else....

 

is is the tank air locking? I.e. Try leaving the cap off...

 

If it's not that then eliminate the tank, pump and gravity by fuelling it from a container and tube higher than the engine. The float will be filled by gravity and self regulating. Then try it... If it does the same then the float valve is sticking closed.

 

other than a constant supply of dirt blocking the jet, not much more that can change...

 

let us know how it goes

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Cheer's Mark, I hadn't thought to eliminate tank-filter-fuel pump, it'll have to be the weekend, but I'll let you know how it goes.

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Ok points set to 0.020" fuel cap off, new in line fuel filter, still the same.

Removed fuel pump and worked by hand and fuel is pumping fine.

Main jet screwed out 2 1/2 turns as is the low idle, sprayed carb cleaner down main jet and in idle jet hole, cleaned the main jet and the end is nice an pointy.

Starts fine on 1/2 choke, I can hold it at full throttle with almost no popping, adjusting the main jet in and out trying to get the best results. Engine back fires loudly when revs start to drop which I can reduce a bit by adjusting the main jet.

I have noticed that the engine gets really hot and the exhaust is getting the air filter cover too hot to touch, is this normal, I never noticed this before?

Only thing I haven't done is check the float, thats my next job when the motor cools down.

Edited by Horse46

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Got back out after the motor cooled and wipped off the carb bowl :-o well there sure was some dirt in there!

 

I've cleaned that out and put it back on, time to give it another spin up, just in case that was the problem.

 

:x what? flat battery, how dare you,:deadhorse: can anything else get in the way of getting it running?

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:deadhorse: this is how I feel right now, if she weren't so pretty aargh!

 

Ok I have done the static timing to the best of my ability, removed the fuel cap, no difference, pulled the pipe off the carb and it pumps fuel, it starts, still pops n bangs and won't tick over for more than 30-40secs unless I rev it.

 

Trouble is now it has developed another issue. The starter just clicks and the negative battery lead is getting hot.

 

I haven't done anything else to it so have no clue why this has just started happening, please can someone explain in childlike stages what I'm doing wrong?

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On 9/14/2015 at 7:18 AM, Horse46 said:

Lets look on the bright side, I sew it up all works fine, happy days.
If it goes Pete Tong in a couple of weeks I now know how it comes apart and goes back together, thats one lesson, and the second is I should have listened to you guys!

Go back to the beginning and start retracing EVERYTHING. 

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Ok it runs,:woohoo:

 

I'm not totally sure what it was as I did 3 things and it could have been any of them I guess?

 

The first thing I did was to eliminate the tank, I had a petrol tank above the engine, I pulled the carb to check the float was cutting the fuel, it may have been sticking? and as I ahd the carb of I did the valve clearances, the exhaust was tight and the intake was a bit to loose so I set them as per the manual.

My starter motor is definitely having issues, It won't work on the compression stroke, if I spin through it by hand and then use the key it fires right up.

 

So, I ran it for an hour at varied engine speeds and all seems to be ok apart from a slight miss, the carb is set as standard for now and the points were static timed.

My next job is to torque the head down and change the oil, I will then try and work on the miss fire with a bit of fine tuning.

 

Could a starter be worn out enough not to be man enough to crank past the compression of a 16hp?

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Exciting! Glad it's running better. You mentioned a hot battery lead. Are the terminals clean and is that lead fresh? I'd replace it and your starter might be happier.

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All the leads are new, I'm guessing but I think the starter is on its last legs, it won't crank on the compression stroke, if I keep the key turned to try and get past it, this is when I think the neg lead gets hot. 

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2 hours ago, Horse46 said:

neg lead gets hot

If all of the leads were getting hot I would say the starter is drawing an excessive amount of current. Since it is one localized overheating it is that lead. The ground lead passes the same amount of current as the other lead. Even a new battery cable can be defective. Also, be sure the negative wire is grounded to the engine block.

Hope this helps.

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Absolutely. If a wire is heating, it is becoming resistive and taking power away from the starter. Make sure that the starter circuit high current wiring and contacts are in the best of condition so you can be sure that the starter is at fault. Nothing more frustrating than taking a 'good guess' and finding that you've wasted money. Battery leads are cheap.

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I ran the engine for about an hour yesterday and the lead was fine, I assume that it would only happen while cranking, or would it happen if I just left the ignition key on? I have a habit of doing this as there is no light to warn of it being on.

I had new leads made when I did the engine swap including the earth from the block to the frame, and all contact areas were back to the metal, I double checked the earths afterwards and all appear to be fine.

The only thing that may make a difference is the earth leads are not as thick as the live and the one to the starter, I'm having some new one's made just incase in black this time not yellow n green like a domestic earth:rolleyes:.

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