General questions for B & C series, and attachments

[Jeff_B 10]

New to the Forum, but we've had a B-100 in the family for almost 40 years (also picked up a C-121 along the way). Both are worn out, parts tractors now. A few questions for the forum. How do the B & C series machines of the 1970s 'match up' to the 300 and 400 series that came later? Are they equivalent, are most parts interchangeable? How about attachments? The 'tach-a-matic' front pulley and PTO clutch look the same as what I have on letter series. I have a roto-tiller and dozer/snow blade that fit the B-100. I also have (I believe) a 200-series snow thrower. Can that be used on the bigger tractors, or easily adapted? Doesn't look it. I imagine the Kohler engine is superior to the B&S, but is the B&S that's used on the Horses good too? I'm scanning Craigslist for a local WH for sale. I've found a few and would appreciate any advice on these topics. I apologize in advance if these questions have already been asked and I can't find the answers. THANKS!

[953 nut 51,409]

    Interchangeability of parts and attachments is one of the strong points for . Virtually anything on the B or C will work on the 300 or 400, that 200 snow blower may need to be significantly modified. In my opinion a B&S won't stand up to a Kohler, but lots of people have gotten a lot of hours of service out of them so if it sounds good you may not want to pass on one just for that reason.

Good luck and keep us posted. 

[slammer302 2,154]

I have a work horse gt1642 with a Briggs motor on it and it seems to work good I think it comes down to how well their taken care of the one I have wasn't real well taken care of but seems the basics were done regular  oil changes and greasing it up besides the work horses their were only a few odd ball c series with briggs on them most had Kohler's 

[Aldon 4,826]

The Briggs Opposed Twin Cylinders of the 70's were solid engines. Some Workhorse models had them as well as a few C161's. The C161 had a fiberglass hood for a year or so. The one that shows up on my posts is my Fiberglass hooded C-161 which i need to show some attention to one of these days. Runs great.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

    

Interchangeability of parts and attachments is one of the strong points for 

.

Virtually anything on the B or C will work on the 300 or 400, that 200 snow blower may need to be significantly modified. In my opinion a B&S won't stand up to a Kohler, but lots of people have gotten a lot of hours of service out of them so if it sounds good you may not want to pass on one just for that reason.

Good luck and keep us posted. 

Many/most attachment interchange so what IS different about the Bs and the Cs?  Will other major parts, hoods and sheet metal interchange?  And what about the 200 series?  Will some sheetmetal interchange?

[Jeff_B 10]

Yeah, I always wondered what the big difference was between the B and C series. Not a BIG difference I guess. I plan to look at a 1978 C-101 this weekend. Nothing else on the radar at this point. It's a Kohler, but wish it had the 12hp. I'd love to be able to use a 48" mower, I have a lot to mow. Although one of my parts tractors has a 12, so who knows. If I get this, I'll definitely want a snow blower attachment for this winter. I'll keep you posted. THANKS everyone, for the advice to this (sort of) newbie!

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

As with anything wheelhorse, it depends on the years. Later on (80's ish) the B series were made with vertical shaft engines and peerless transmissions.

Earlier B series (70's ish) just generally had smaller engines and less features (like no headlights, etc) but were the same as their C series counterparts in almost every other way.

200 series was smaller vertical shaft and i dont believe any major parts match the 300+ series.

Edited August 12, 2015 by bmsgaffer

[ronhatch 405]

I'm no expert, but didn't the B have the gas tank under the hood and the C had it under the seat? Plus, I think. the engineers were able to then move the battery up to where the tanks used to be and the steering tower is different.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I'm no expert, but didn't the B have the gas tank under the hood and the C had it under the seat? Plus, I think. the engineers were able to then move the battery up to where the tanks used to be and the steering tower is different.

I'd like to categorize which models/years had the tank under the hood and then under the seat .  I'm B ignorant but I know the tanks got moved around on the Cs.  My:
1972    Raider 8 under the hood
1977    C-160  under the hood
1978    C-81   under the seat
1981    C-85  under the seat

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

As far as I know all B & C of the early style (B/C-xx0) were under the hood. Later style (B/C-xx1 or B/C-xx5) were under the seat EXCEPT some 8hp models remained under the hood attached to the engine I think...

[DennisThornton 4,769]

As far as I know all B & C of the early style (B/C-xx0) were under the hood. Later style (B/C-xx1 or B/C-xx5) were under the seat EXCEPT some 8hp models remained under the hood attached to the engine I think...

Matches with my little collection at least.  Love the exceptions!  Keeps us alert!  

[Racinbob 10,256]

Up to and including 1977 the B's were basically the same as the C's. In 1978 the B's were lawn tractors. The B/C difference in 76 and 77 was, horsepower, low back vs high back seat, 13" vs 15" steering wheel, 22-7.50 vs 23-8.50 rear tires, optional vs standard headlights. The differences prior to 76 were similar but I didn't have first hand experience with those. I think some of the earlier B's had 4-speeds.


 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Then I've underrated and undervalued the early Bs!  I still do the same to all vertical shafts but I'm not sure I should.  I'm sure there's some good vertical shaft driven GTs out there, WH or not, but I got to limit my research time somewhat somehow...  But that's another topic!

Looks like the earliest B, the 1974 was a 4 speed only with later years being 5, 6, 8 speeds and autos?  5 and 6 speeds?  Oh dear, yet another topic...

So anyhow a 76 B-80 is as capable as a 76 C-80?  And in 80-84 they even offered a B-165!  Sounds like a very capable GT with only minor differences from the Cs?  Except maybe now we are getting into that other topic, the verticals?

Racinbob, I added your comments to my collection which includes these quotes:

They were only made from 1974 through 1984.

If it's a 1977 or earlier B series model (with horizontal-shaft engine), then the blower would fit the other "Tach-A-Matic" equipped garden tractor models (1973 – 2007).

If it's a 1978 or later model B series, then it would have a vertical shaft engine – and those are more limited in application.

The "B" series from 1974 to 1977 were every bit as much of a garden tractor as the "C" series. The only difference being that the "B" series did not have lights as standard equipment. After 1977, The "B" series began to be downgraded to be more of a lawn tractor with Briggs engines and Peerless or Foote transmissions.


 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Here's a pic of a 1976 B-80 'converted' to a C-160. I bought it as a B-80 brand new. I bought the headlights when I bought the tractor. I installed a new K-341 and 23-8.50 rear tires. In 2000 I sold it when we moved here. Kinda a long story but about a year ago I discovered that the current owner was the neighbor of my daughter and her family in Walkerton, IN. It was still almost like new when I sold it in spite of how hard I worked it and it saddened me to see the shape it's in now but it was so amazing that I got to see it again. The Commando 800 (1972) in the background is my grandsons. I restored it for him several years ago. The rear tires on it are the 22-7.50 that were originally on the B-80.

Also keep in mind the other differences between the B and C series in that era but yes, the 77 and older B's were just as capable if the horsepower was there. The 76 and 77 even had the 8 pinion diff and 1.125 axles. Not sure prior to that.

[Racinbob 10,256]

Also, they never had a C-80. There was a C-81 which started in 1978 when the B's became lawn tractors.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Racinbob

[DennisThornton 4,769]

That does a real good job of answering several of my questions about Bs vs Cs.  And yes, I goofed, there's no C-80 listed anywhere that I can find.  Though I'm hesitate to say anything definite about WHs anymore.  Just learned about 754s!

What about the vertical shaft Bs?  Weaker trannys?  Other cost cutting areas?
Thanks!

[Racinbob 10,256]

Most definitely weaker transmissions, frames, etc. Designed to compete with the big box stuff. Fine for mowing lawns but iffy with most other attachments.

[cschannuth 3,795]

My dad's snow blade from his '78 C-161 fit my '97 520H by simply adding the extension to compensate for the longer frame.  By the way, I have dad's 161 now and the twin Briggs still runs like a top after almost 40 years of use. He maintained it but didn't do anything extraordinary.

[Racinbob 10,256]

Curiosity strikes me again Is the 520 frame actually longer or is the snow blade frame extension used because of the 520's with the swept forward axles? Sometimes Toro gets slammed (I did for a while) but it just amazes me what they did or didn't do. When we lived in Indiana I had just about every attachment made for that B/C 160 in post #14 and every one of them would fit perfectly on my 2005 Classic GT. Kudos to Toro for hanging on as long as possible.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Racinbob

[cleat 4,936]

520 frame is the same. Just the swept axle puts the front wheels forward a bit (2 or 3 inches).

 

[cschannuth 3,795]

Cleat is absolutely correct.  Sorry if I created confusion.

[Racinbob 10,256]

You didn't create any confusion. It's the state that I live in.   I thought it was just the swept axle but wasn't certain.

[nickjet67 19]

@Racinbob So then in theory I could take a attachment from my b-80 and hook it up to my b-115? If so, that would be awesome cause I need a blower (and a motor) before winter really hits Michigan lol.

Edited January 11, 2019 by nickjet67

[Racinbob 10,256]

1 hour ago, nickjet67 said:

@Racinbob So then in theory I could take a attachment from my b-80 and hook it up to my b-115? If so, that would be awesome cause I need a blower (and a motor) before winter really hits Michigan lol.

 

That would be a no. 1978 and later B's were a lawn tractor.