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Bach-Ed

first gear pops out

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I suspect I will find something wrong with the detent system when I tear it down

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Don't forget to open that differential and clean that out also.  Stuff can get in through those holes...I know.  :)

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Ouch...As Steve said I have everything except the high/second gear (3523) gear for that trans...get a list together and let me know what all you need and let me know.
 

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more in the continuing saga...   The tranny is now completely apart, with clean up tomorrow.  I took the detent system apart and the balls seemed good but the spring wasn't perfect.  The boogered up end wwas the side facing the first gear detent.  Perhaps the bend up may have hung up keeping the ball from fully engaging.  Anyway that is my guess.

DSC02325.JPG

DSC02326.JPG

DSC02327.JPG

DSC02328.JPG

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If TORO does not have the spring..WH#3518...Mike may have one.  I have used a couple of needle nose pliers to reshape the spring with great success.  Put new balls in.  You are using this horse to mow...this is not much money and you do not want to cheap out and have to open again next year. :)
  OK, RacinBob...it is very possible that the spring enabled the slack in the 1st gear part of the fork gear to slip enough to cause the engagement of the fork gear and the small gear of the cluster gear to not mesh correctly...thus shearing off the weaker teeth. :bow-blue:     What an excellent thread for something that is unusual to what happens with transmissions.  Outstanding.  :)

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This sure has been interesting. With the way it didn't feel right that probably is spot on. :) Since there's only the one spring that works for all the gears it certainly isn't worth going cheap.

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One question for Steve and bob about this model tractor's transmission --  would it have had the later model shifting forks with the deeper cut half moons in it or the earlier versions?    I know the dentent pin is longer on the later version but I think the spring and 1/4 balls are the same as original?
 

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Good question Lane. It couldn't hurt but the later rails came about as a means to stop the transmission from locking in two gears. Service bulletin #60 addresses this. That happened in 1965 so I would imagine he has the later style on his 857.

Just went back and checked. It does look like he has the newer style. Only the center detents are deeper.

Edited by Racinbob
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Just to memorialize this, here are photos of the gears.  I'll comment on what I think about condition and ask for your responses.  Now obviously in the best of all worlds magically I'd find the entire contents of the transmission NOS but we know that ain't gonna happen.  So it is always a compromise.  The pinion gears look iffy but I'm not a puller.  Same for the Axle Gear.  And I'd reuse the Axle gear and the Brake Shaft Gear.  I'll start another message so there are not too many photos in an email.

Pinion gears 1.JPG

Pinion gears 2.JPG

Pinion gears 3.JPG

axle gear.JPG

Brake Shaft Gear.JPG

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There's some issues but I wouldn't say anything that should stop you from using them. I think they'd be fine.

You've got that divot in the diff gear that may have been caused by a chunk of the 1st/Reverse gear but I don't see it being a problem.
 

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Well here a some pics of the other gears.  The reverse idler needs replacing and I'll reuse the high and second especially as they are hard to get.  I'd like to replace the cluster gear.

Reverse Idler Gear 1.JPG

Reverse Idler Gear 2.JPG

hi and second Gear.JPG

high and second gear 1.JPG

Cluster Gear.JPG

Cluster Gear 2.JPG

Cluster Gear 3.JPG

Cluster Gear 4.JPG

While we're at it here are the forks.  The dimples on each seem ok.   The input gear will be reused.  I feel as the input gear is iffy, should I reuse or replace?

1st  reverse fork.JPG

2 and 3 Fork.JPG

Input Gear.JPG

DSC02346.JPG

Splined pinion Gear.JPG

Splined pinion Gear 2.JPG

Splined pinion Gear 3.JPG

Just for the record is the trash low/reverse gear.  The splined shaft looks OK.  

Low and Reverse Gear.JPG

Spline Shaft.JPG

Spline Shaft 2.JPG

Reduction Gear.JPG

Reduction Gear 2.JPG

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What a great collection of paper weights.  I think your pinions and axle gears, differential gear and mushroom gear are OK.  Yes, replace the cluster gear (#3525), the 1st / reverse fork gear (#3524), reverse idler (#4204) and the detente spring #3518).  I know Mike does not have the 2nd / 3rd fork gear (#3523), but if one popped up, I would change it out also.  It looks pretty worn on the inside where it meshes with the input gear.  I am thinking it would pop out of 3rd if the horse was under load...but if we can''t find one...so be it.  I would go a head and send a PM to racinfool40 for those parts.  The gasket WH# 3912 is available from TORO for about $6.00.  The bearing in the picture with the needle bearings out of their place, it looks like WH# 1529...cluster shaft bearing (closed) crosses to Torrington M-12121 and is available from your favorite NAPA dealer...or Motion Industries.  :)

Ed, can you give us another view of the ends of the reverse idler, it could be the pictures, but it looks to me like that was placed in the transmission upside down.  I would like to verify that so you do not do that with the new one.  :)

Looks like you added a few pictures.  Your fork shafts are fine.  Your shifter is fine.  You could replace that input gear...If Mike has one, but it will work if he does not.

Edited by stevasaurus
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Well here are both sides of the gear.  I don't remember what side was up when I took it apart.  And I'm not sure if I knew there was a right and wrong side.  Once I looked close at the picture in the manual, I can see that the boss (raised area) appears to go down. 
And the rag in the background was clean when I started, look at all the metal shavings!  Has anyone ever tried putting a small rare earth magnet in the bottom of the case to suck in metal that might get missed?

DSC02356.JPG

DSC02357.JPG

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I've seen drain plugs magnetized by the manufacturer of steam plant equipment just for that purpose....and just for capturing particles from wear and tear.

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You had the reverse idler correct Ed.  The flanged end goes down.  :)  BTW...those 2 pinion gears that go on the ends on the cluster gear shaft, and the reduction gear that sits on top of the spline shaft...both look OK.  That should take care of it.  Let us know and keep us informed Mate.  :)  Love the rag!!!  Excellent pictures...Thanks  The gears that Mike sells are in good shape...show us some pictures when you get those parts.  :)

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Yep, I have everything he needs...all my 3523 gears look about like his maybe a little better Pm was returned we will see how he wants to proceed with this..I gave him a couple different options....Anyway we can get him fixed up and headed in the right direction.
 

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Mike, this guy is from Illinois...he is special people...not that any you help aren't special.  Thanks mate.  :)  Mike...how many transmissions and horses have we saved through the years\??  I think we have made a good dent in saving horses.   :)

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Guys, I'm going to post a pic when I take it.....tomorrow. I'd like your opinion on two spare 3523 gears I have. They may be a better choice.

Edited by Racinbob
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Steve, As far as how many we have saved who knows.. I have shipped parts all over and Complete transmissions to Massachutes..Texas...North Carolina..New York as well as indiana ohio and Pa... I even had one older fella drive out from New Jersey to my place in North west ohio on a Saturday Morning we re-built his 953 trans he loaded it back up and turn around and drove back to Jersey...The things we do for these little machines is a blast and the people make it fun!!...As far as the 3523 gear that is the biggest problem I have found...for about every 4 I tear down 1 of them gears can be re-used...As they are no longer available new this gear I think is what is going to be the thorn in these transmissions...

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Maybe we can get Ed to show up at Scott's M&G in October.  How cool would that be??  :)

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Steve and Mike, what's you opinion of these two. I'm thinking both are better than what Ed has. Are the any better than what you have Mike? One of them came out of my 5010 but I don't remember which one. I replaced it with a NOS.

Old 3523 2.JPG

Edited by Racinbob

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Bob, both of those are better then what Ed has now.  :)

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Yea, I agree Steve. I was wondering more if they were any better than what Mike has right now.

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Such a downfall design with the third gear engagement situation. Other than that, I really like these trannys.

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