Denny's Free Suburban Work

[WHX?? 46,723]

Oh no...somebody wouldn't let me work on it till the shoulder doctor said so. 

Now just got to lite a fire under the guy's  a$$ that was supposed to do some valve work on the Clinton.

I'm sure it will be ready for the big show 

[WHX?? 46,723]

OK so next question does anyone know what the proper parts/hardware is for holding the transmission/clutch idler pulley on? This one was cobbled on to put it  mildly. The IPL shows a stud with a snap ring on the outside with a bronze bushing/spacer  on the inside with a jam nut. In looking at my 401 this appears to be correct but not sure if my 401 hasn't been altered. The idler arm is threaded with 1/2 fine threads but th PO had a 5/16 bolt with stacks of washers..... well you don't wanna know. Any help would be apreciated also if someone has the correct hardware they don't need I'm interested.

Edited February 16, 2016 by WHX6

[WHX?? 46,723]

Also did a little work on the steering gear.....holes in the tie rods were ovaled so drilled them out to 5/8 and fitted bushings. Added a bronze washer for a little more smoothness. Steering is nice and tight now. 

[Racinbob 10,276]

Looking great Jim. As far as the idler pulley goes here's mine. The stud had a shoulder it tightens to and no separate spacer. Of course there's no way to be positive it's original but I'm thinking it is. There's also no way of knowing if they did it both ways depending on the parts on hand. If you're looking at the same IPL drawing I am it's actually a RJ drawing that was modified to become a Suburban and they screwed up on a few things with the idler pulley being one of them. I don't have another idler like what is on my Suburban but I do have an extra off a later model with a 3/8" bolt and spacer if it will help you out.

 

 

 

 

[Molon_Labe 731]

My idler identical to yours Bob with the shoulder stud pressed into the bearing so I would guess that that is the original configuration.

[Racinbob 10,276]

That's what I was thinking Major. I'm just very hesitant to state things as if it's a fact that it was factory original. One thing I don't have is that belt stop tab on the top. I have an extra I may try to 'unweld' and use or make one or use a rod.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Racinbob

[WHX?? 46,723]

Thanks guys, now I kinda have an idea how to do it right. Going to turn down a bolt to the id of the bearing and cut a slot, fab the proper spacer and put a jam nut on the back side. If you could give me the thickness of that spacer that would help. I could measure the center line of the input pully from the side plate and run off that too.  Yours is just pressed in the bearing and I am guessing the screwdriver slot is how to thread it in the arm. I see no snap ring like the IPL says. I bet both of yours is original but I don't have the belt stop either on my 400 or 401.

 

Your 3rd pic is somehat confusing tho Bob, that bearing looks like it has a larger id and the bolt threads right thru it and the spacer into the arm. The bearings in the other pics have an id of a hair  over 5/16. The bearing in mine is original and resonably  tight yet so not going to split the pully to replace it.

 

 

I have  been lucky so far and most of the fixes I have to do on this girl are hidden.

[Racinbob 10,276]

That came off a 657 or 500 special. I'm not sure which but they are identical. The center hole in the bearing is 3/8". The 3/8" bolt simply runs thru it, the spacer and threads directly into the idler arm. Here's the other one I'll be using:

 

I like your way of thinking Jim.

The spacer is 3/16". I reinstalled it while you were typing. As you can see, the 400 has a nut welded to the idler arm.

 

[Achto 26,537]

I have the pulley that Racin Bob shows in his first pic. I gave up on trying to get a match to the original set up. What I did was weld the hole shut in the clutch arm, then drilled & tapped it for a 3/8" bolt. This allowed me to use an off the shelf pulley from TSC. I do have my old pulley yet, the bearings are locked up but if you want it for the hardware let me know.

[Racinbob 10,276]

It would be interesting to open it up and see what bearing is in there. As long as you can get the bearing I think it would be easy to build or repair an original style. I'll bet somebody here has already done that. 

[Achto 26,537]

The pulley I used required me to have an 1/8 spacer behind it. This allowed me some room to add my own version of a belt brake.

[WHX?? 46,723]

2 hours ago, achto said:

I do have my old pulley yet, the bearings are locked up but if you want it for the hardware let me know

Yeah I'll take it Achto if you have no use for it.

 

1 hour ago, Racinbob said:

It would be interesting to open it up and see what bearing is in there. As long as you can get the bearing I think it would be easy to build or repair an original style. I'll bet somebody here has already done that. 

Yes it would Bob and I know just the guy to do it!

[Racinbob 10,276]

achto, I like that! Gives me some ideas. With a factory pulley you couldn't get away with shortening the spacer 1/16". There's only .023" clearance with the 3/16".

 

 

Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing what you find out.

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Racinbob

[WHX?? 46,723]

Ya that is pretty close, I don't think my 401 is like that, Looked at it last nite but I thinl it was more like 1/2 Inch! Gonna pull off the guard and take some pics tonite. Dan (achto) and I are going to meet and pick it up. I will drill the rivets out and see what shakes. Hope he has the hardware as that would save me some fab time! I wouldn't have thought a 657 or 500 would not have had that type of arm/pully as they have two piece trannys right?

 

I bet Molon's came off a later model tractor with the belt brake on it like yours. But then why does his have the shoulder stud and yours doesn't ...I don't think we are ever gonna figure these tractors out!

Edited February 16, 2016 by WHX6

[Racinbob 10,276]

Yea, both the 657 and 500 Special have 5053 transmissions but it was pretty obvious that the 657 had been swapped out for what I think is a 5025. The whole clutch/brake setup on a 2 piece is very similar to the 5007/5010. On the two piece the clutch arm rod runs thru the frame instead of the transmission sides. I doubt that Molens came off a newer model though. The angle of the belt brake is completely different. It's possible that Wheel Horse added it in later 400's or it was removed and rewelded. There's also about a 5/8" difference in the length.

[WHX?? 46,723]

Come to think my 1067 is like that and comes thru the frame

 

~$Doc1.docx

I have no clue why that didn't work

[WHX?? 46,723]

Here's the bearing 

Sorry about the upside down one......appears to be a nice 7277

Od is a best guess,.... here's the one achto has for me, will pick it up tommorow. 

[WHX?? 46,723]

I will try and replace the bearing and get it to another bro in need if it works out. SWEET that he has the oem stud!! Hopefully will save me the fab time.

Edited February 17, 2016 by WHX6

[WHX?? 46,723]

Close as I can find is a motion 1615 ...7/16 ×1 1/8 × 3/8 anybody see different?  Where is our bearing expert @stevasaurus when you need him?!?!

[WHX?? 46,723]

Update on the bearing - its a real common 6200, 30 OD x 10 ID  x 9 width. (MM) all over ebay and very cheap.  Got the pully apart and will post some pics here http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/61433-pulleys-idlers-for-free/ this weekend.  The good news is these pulleys can be saved if needed.

Edited February 19, 2016 by WHX6

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I'm here Jim...what ya need?? 

 

[WHX?? 46,723]

We were wondering what that bearing crossed over to, a nice 7277, in the pic above as it didn't cross in any bearing manuals. After getting in out tho it meaured out to a 6200. See above.

 

While I got your ear tho after getting the chassis rolling it seems to push real hard. More so trying to push it backwards. Is this normal for a fresh transmission? On jacks the wheels spin fine.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

No, it really is not normal to roll hard in neutral, but it could be just tight until used for a while.  My 702 can be hard to roll sometimes...I rebuilt that trans.  I don't know.  Yours should roll easy. 

[WHX?? 46,723]

FINALLY found a machine shop thay would put valve guides in the motor so should be ressurecting this old thread and finnishing her up in time for Pioneer Power in MN. Up date pics to follow....

[CasualObserver 3,406]

 Dancing cheese... just for you Jim.....  Looking forward to seeing it in a couple weeks!