GT 14 RestoMod

[Aldon 4,826]

5 hours ago, swisstrac said:

Aldon compliments and kudos on your wonderfull participation and wealth of  constructive  ADVICE// Re steering wheel i am having same  trbl pulling got  the center cap offf then the nut but still no go ND GO did not see a drift pin; perhaps iam  not lookig correctly?  thanks  and all the best  ray

 

 

Ray, thanks for the comments. As for steering wheel removal, I have never pulled a GT14 Steering wheel that did not have a Pin that needs removed. Although I think my total experience is only 5 different tractors so not extensive experience. Do note that the diameter of the hole and thus the pin are larger than I would have used. The spring pins are there fore large enough for light to pass through. In fact, I used a smaller Allen Hex key my first time and the hollow end gave enough tension I thought I was backing out the bolt but it was simply turning the sprinted pin in place. Use a drift almost snug in diameter and you will find that there is a pin holding it in place.

[Aldon 4,826]

So while I did a complete tear down I did not break the hydro down and rebuild it. And as luck would have it, it appears the seals are shot as it has leaked since I finished the build last year. 

 

So so I am finally getting to tearing the rear half of tractor back down and will replace seals, polish the brass slippers and while I am in here this deep, I will rebuild the valve control. I will lean on the thread @ztnoo did for tech support as far as the valve control goes. 

Pics of the inititial tear down. With a 3 point this is tedious at best. For those who need to do this, be careful to loosen if not remove the ball that connects the tunnel Hydro lever from the nylon cam which is on front facing part of the pump. I have taken a couple pics of the filter which can sometimes be clogged but which requires the pump be removed to access it. My filter is good to my eyes. And the tractor had no issues with power. So I'm hoping when I break down the pump everything is good and only seals need replaced.

I am juggling several projects but felt that this one would be worth tagging into it he original thread.

[ztnoo 2,298]

The filter screen looks pretty decent to me, but I guess you'll know more once you clean with fresh solvent.

I don't envy the rest of the job.

The hydro control valve is a 0 on a scale of 10 compared to the rest of your rear end redo.

 

Thanks for the tag Dr. Trimble.

 

[Aldon 4,826]

So I've torn down 4 pumps previously and I may not do it same as others but it seems to work for me.

 

The pictures tell most of the story. I cleaned the dirt and grease as best I could and I start by removing the cam assembly first:

 

From the side, you can see the pin that needs to be driven out.

 

 

once you drive the pin out, the cast piece slides off and you then get to the three retaining screws/bolts. Once you remove cam housing, there are some oings and a triangular washer. These prints are almost impossible to find from TORO/Wheelhorse. A few have managed to get replacements from hydraulic shops and Napa.

 

 

There is a steel spacer that has to come off. This pump had some minor shaft corrosion. Once I cleaned it off, I tilted unit and it slid to where I could pull it free.

 

 

Then flip it over and start removing the side cover.

 

 

This will allow you to drive the shafts out once you remove the squash plate pins.

 

Next remove qty 4, 9/16" bolts that hold pump housing to the main assembly.

 

It may require some gentle tapping to break free the gasket but it will now come free.

 

Next drive the shaft pins down enough that the shafts slide in and out. Then remove the shafts and squash plate assembly. Note that the pins remain in place. Later to reassemble I pull them the rest of the way and start them before sliding the shafts back in place to make it easier to finish driving them in.

 

 

You can now see the retaining ring that holds the main pump shaft and bearing in place. Remove the ring. Once removed, I push the shaft and bearing back through. Then I push the seal through. Much easier than trying to pull seal from outside. 

 

 

all the parts arranged to make reassembly easier.

 

Then I polish the brass. I do each one, then re-insert to keep the order correct. I start with 220 and work my way to 1500 grit.

 

Before:

 

After:

 

 

Assembly for another day:-)

 

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

Great photo documentation and commentary!!!

[JPWH 5,295]

I agree with ztnoo.   Aldon This needs to be in the instructional thread.

If I ever own a hydro I know where to get it rebuilt.

Jay

[19richie66 16,880]

I am watching with eyes wide open!

[Aldon 4,826]

Thanks gents. All made possible by the many posts by @daveoman1966 and some support from @fast88pu. Took me a good while before I had the confidence to dive in on these. Dave's informational posts are phenomenal when you gather them all. I just want this GT14 thread to sort of be a catch all. 

[953 nut 51,519]

          Your posts are a real asset to our site.            Now get back to work so we can learn even more!   

[Aldon 4,826]

Fought off Flu or food poisoning but I have mini goals to keep so I forc d myself into finishing the pump rebuild. I hope to tackle the Control valve and reinstall this and re-assemble most of the tractor this weekend.

 

Since I'm just a brace but ignorant soul, forgive me if I call these parts by Theo incorrect name. I'm no expert. Just following my nose and advice from others.

 

The squash plate assembly has a plate that will act like it's permanently attached. This is suction of the fluid that seeped behind it. It may not be necessary but I pop it loose and polish the surface that will mate to the slippers when reassembled. 

 

Take the time to polish any burrs or corrosion from the shafts. Including the section on the splined end of the main shaft so it will mate easier to the assembly again when done. The other shaft ends are done so you don't damage the new seals. Also note, I pulled pins on squash plate out of back side and gently started them on the front side for later assembly.

 

 

I pulled the seal part numbers from daveoman1966 threads.  The seal below is for the main output shaft.

 

Install the seal

clean the output shaft and the external surface of the bearing and lube it. Then assemble.

 

reinstall the retaining ring.

 

 

depending on shape of your o-rings when you De-assemble, decide whether you wish to re-use or replace. They are no longer available. I have a set of new old stock below on right compared to the ones I pulled out. I decided to use the new ones but also use the Seals that Daveoman1966 highlighted. If you go the latter route you end up having to leave a couple pieces on the table and not using.

 

Note how flattened the larger is. These O-rings are on the Cam shaft between the Cam and pump. This seems to be where most of the GT14 pumps leak. Or at least seemingly so. May be that since the main output shaft seal can be replaced by pulling with a pick without having to disassemble the whole rear of tractor and to replace these requires complete tear down that I see a disparity. Irregardless, I like the idea of the Seal with added O-ring. 

 

Here is the seal used on both squash plate shafts if you choose to do same as I have in which case you need qty 2

 

The two parts that will not be used:

 

 

since im going the seal route as opposed to only o-rings, I then install both seals and lube:

 

 

Insert the squash shafts part way. Note, for the longer cam shaft you have a reference hole for aligning when you try to drive pins back in. Not the case for the shorter side. Take a moment and mark it. Trust me. It's worth the time.

 

 

The next step is a bit of a chore. With both squash shafts partially started, gently place spasm plate assembly inside and for me, I blindly align by touch and press the shafts into the plate assembly. Using the mark, I first align the shorter shaft and drive the pin into place. Then the other side. Take time to wipe it free of any debris as the polished surface is the whole reason to do this project for most to reinvigorate their Hydro. That and the slippers. New seals are gravy. 

 

Make sure you have already cleaned the gasket surfaces thoroughly. And have new gaskets ready. At this point only the pump gasket need be close by... 

 

 

A quick note for anyone not having assembled these. The non pulley end of the main shaft I call the bottom. The bottom slides into a rotary pump type set up. It's a bit of a task to get all these parts together while keeping the slippers from sliding out. So align the rotary pump so it is centered. See next two pics.

 

 

There are multiple ways to do this. After a few I think the easiest might be to situate the main assembly face up, center the rotary pump in center, place the slipper assembly on top with splined hole centered and slide the pump housing over and gently swizzle it around until both the splines on main shaft slip through slipper assembly and the bottom splined portion slips into the rotary gear. The pic below is for clarification.

 

 

Back to my assembly.

 

 

Note that gasket is in place before sliding pump hosing over.

 

 

Assume the slipper assembly is on top of main assembly. Slide over and align the main splines. Then wiggle the main shaft and slide the bottom splines into place.

 

Insert 4 bolts and tighten.

 

with new seals, it will be tight but the cam shaft will rotate if you slide a punch or screw driver through the hole. If it's too tight, you may have to reverse a few steps and do over.

 

It's now time to button up the covers for the squash shaft and cam end.

 

With a seal now on this shaft end, the old oring can be re-used. It will be flattened from age but the new seal should do all the work. Pics are self explanatory:

 

 

Now the Cam. As mentioned at beginning of this post, I chose to use a seal and that necessitates I leave the retaining ring off and not use the thick spacer washer. The Seal fills the space. As I had a new o-ring, I used it on back side of cam housing and doubled it up with old orings. As on the other side, these are insurance and aid in keeping dirt out of the seal doing all the work. Then assemble.

 

 

Viola!

 

Ready to re-install.

 

Not sure why the below pictures force their way into the post at this point. I've tried to delete. Weird

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Aldon

[ztnoo 2,298]

Another outstanding and informative pictorial seminar by Dr. Trimble!

Great work, Aldon!!! 

I'll be very interested in a performance evaluation once you have the machine back up and running again.

[953 nut 51,519]

 @Aldon, this may not be the longest post ever done, but it is the most informative and well documented!  

[Aldon 4,826]

So good news, the pump and Hydro work great! 

 

Bad news, while the leak was indeed more noteworthy at the cam, after installing and testing the pump for functionality, it became obvious that the bottom was leaking. This area acts as reservoir for the pump and doubles as and I'm not sure this is correct terminology but what I call the transaxle. The axles and limited slip gears that mate up to the pump assembly. Not sure how long it's going to take me to accomplish this as I have a few things I need to do on other projects while I still have some summer left. I want to have it ready by the Fall. But that's more of a mini goal to keep me focused than a real need. I'm learning so that good but it is a royal PITA. Very frustrating.

 

A couple pics of the removal surgery. Definitely would have been smarter and easier to do as part of the initial resto. But at that point I was too intimidated by the hydro.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Aldon

[Aldon 4,826]

Well sometimes things which seem to be going so poorly work out for the best.

 

The merry go round of projects landed on the GT16 again and I tore the transaxle down.

 

First I tackled cutting some gaskets:

 

Then i pulled the pump and hydro gear free of transaxle. I was slightly surprised that the slippers showed a few scratches already after on a couple minutes function test. 

 

As as I broke the Transaxle apart, everything still looked good but I did see some small metal debris. So seemingly on the right track for the slight marring of slippers but no smoking gun.

 

I pulled the axle assembly. All good. That other gear and still nothing. Then the last one and viola! The smoking gun. So in the end, I'm guess I'm glad the transaxle gasket was leaking as the metal that was in there would surely have shredded the pump. So I'll re-polish the slippers and order up some bearings and a seal for the parking pawl. Needless to say, this one Wont get done this weekend.

 

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,034]

Good thing is right that you pulled it all apart. 

[19richie66 16,880]

That would have been a catastrophic failure in short time. Good thing you caught it. 

[ztnoo 2,298]

WOW! Great stuff Aldon.

As usual superb photo documentation and commentary.

I guess that proves never assume too much until you have the whole assembly torn down.

That deteriorating needle cage would have destroyed all your prior hard work, not to mention possibly the entire tranny itself.

Great job!

[Aldon 4,826]

Well Elijah is back together and runs great. Not noticeably stronger when driving but the lift seems to be quicker. Might be wishful thinking as this is one of those repairs I hope to avoid in future. I took the time while it was apart and repaired the one fender that had a problem spot that the paint had came off of. It don't look too bad for having been used for mowing duties last summer.

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

Looks great, Dr. Trimble!!!

[19richie66 16,880]

"It don't look bad"? . That thing is beautiful. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by 19richie66

[Aldon 4,826]

Just now, 19richie66 said:

It don't look bad . That thing is beautiful. 

 

Thanks Ritchie. But in truth it's now a 3-4 footer since I worked it. Still worthy to take to show but not a true perfect paint show stopper.

 

Its not perfect but still my favorite. 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,027]

@Aldon Well after all the different work you have done it appears that you have a new profession when you retire. Not  all tractors at the Big Show have to be trailer queens. It is all the work that goes into them. You have done a great job.

[ztnoo 2,298]

52 minutes ago, Aldon said:

But in truth it's now a 3-4 footer

 

If yours is a 3-4 footer, my '69 is a 50 footer........but its still working with some TLC.

 

Question:

What are the boat cleats on the 3 point hitch draw bar/apparatus for???

[Aldon 4,826]

Not sure what the prior owner installed them for but figured I'd paint em up and leave them in place. My guess is they will come in handy at some point.

[JPWH 5,295]

I think by 3 or 4 footer he meant stay back that far to admire the whole package. Beautiful Aldon!