522xi trouble

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Well after much messing around I am led to believe that it's the starter selenoid. Battery is good , safety is good, fuses are good, switching out the ignition switch solved nothing. Only problem is that on parts tree the selenoid goes for $296!!!!!!! I might as well sell this thing and buy another tractor for $300!!

Mike, I just found the solenoid #52 435 02 on eBay for $29.99. It also showed that Kawasaki used it as well.  I'm sure that someone will have it for even less than that!

Edited July 22, 2015 by shallowwatersailor

[papaglide 541]

Thanks guys, that makes way more sense than what I thought that I saw. I am going to check out my local Napa after work and see what they have. I miss driving my xi around!!

[papaglide 541]

Well, I got a new solenoid in the mail. I proceeded to take out the old one and put the new one in. As soon as I touched the positive battery lead to the positive screw on the solenoid, the starter started spinning. Even with the key ignition switch pulled out of the tractor. I am not sure what to do at this point. 

[wheelhorseman 3,197]

Mike have you followed the solenoid (trigger wire) back to the switch? Has it or any other wires been rubbing together causing the (trigger wire) to become hot all the time as it should only be hot when your key switch is in the start position.

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

Is the switch easy to get to? If so, disconnect the wire at the switch and at the solenoid, and then check for voltage. As Lowell mentioned, it must be shorted somewhere. 

 

Are you retired, or otherwise available during the day? If so, and I can ever find some time, I'll swing by with a meter and help you check the wiring.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,491]

Remove the small wires from the solenoid and try again. If it still tries to crank there is something wrong with the way the solenoid is installed. The solenoid plunger is not retracting. Perhaps a spring got left out?

Garry

[papaglide 541]

Is the switch easy to get to? If so, disconnect the wire at the switch and at the solenoid, and then check for voltage. As Lowell mentioned, it must be shorted somewhere. 

 

Are you retired, or otherwise available during the day? If so, and I can ever find some time, I'll swing by with a meter and help you check the wiring.

I would love to be retired!!  Not yet, another 15 yearsish...I am home from work around 5pm daily. I suck with electrical stuff so that would be great if we could find time.

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

Is the switch easy to get to? If so, disconnect the wire at the switch and at the solenoid, and then check for voltage. As Lowell mentioned, it must be shorted somewhere. 

 

Are you retired, or otherwise available during the day? If so, and I can ever find some time, I'll swing by with a meter and help you check the wiring.

I would love to be retired!!  Not yet, another 15 yearsish...I am home from work around 5pm daily. I suck with electrical stuff so that would be great if we could find time.

Evenings are tough with my wife being in a wheelchair. Are you available Saturdays? Sundays?

I'm not great with it, despite my background, but I can at least tell if it is shorted. I hope.  

[papaglide 541]

Remove the small wires from the solenoid and try again. If it still tries to crank there is something wrong with the way the solenoid is installed. The solenoid plunger is not retracting. Perhaps a spring got left out?

Garry

Garry, I never noticed a spring with either the old or the new solenoid. I have a ground(?) wire to the starter, a small wire with a tab, and the positive from the battery. She still spins with the small wire off of the tab.

Is the switch easy to get to? If so, disconnect the wire at the switch and at the solenoid, and then check for voltage. As Lowell mentioned, it must be shorted somewhere. 

 

Are you retired, or otherwise available during the day? If so, and I can ever find some time, I'll swing by with a meter and help you check the wiring.

I would love to be retired!!  Not yet, another 15 yearsish...I am home from work around 5pm daily. I suck with electrical stuff so that would be great if we could find time.

Evenings are tough with my wife being in a wheelchair. Are you available Saturdays? Sundays?

I'm not great with it, despite my background, but I can at least tell if it is shorted. I hope.  

Let me see what the weekend looks like. I have hockey both days in the morning but not sure what the rest of the days look like. In other words, I have to check with the boss to see whats planned!!

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

Remove the small wires from the solenoid and try again. If it still tries to crank there is something wrong with the way the solenoid is installed. The solenoid plunger is not retracting. Perhaps a spring got left out?

Garry

Garry, I never noticed a spring with either the old or the new solenoid. I have a ground(?) wire to the starter, a small wire with a tab, and the positive from the battery. She still spins with the small wire off of the tab.

Is the switch easy to get to? If so, disconnect the wire at the switch and at the solenoid, and then check for voltage. As Lowell mentioned, it must be shorted somewhere. 

 

Are you retired, or otherwise available during the day? If so, and I can ever find some time, I'll swing by with a meter and help you check the wiring.

I would love to be retired!!  Not yet, another 15 yearsish...I am home from work around 5pm daily. I suck with electrical stuff so that would be great if we could find time.

Evenings are tough with my wife being in a wheelchair. Are you available Saturdays? Sundays?

I'm not great with it, despite my background, but I can at least tell if it is shorted. I hope.  

Let me see what the weekend looks like. I have hockey both days in the morning but not sure what the rest of the days look like. In other words, I have to check with the boss to see whats planned!!

LOL, yeah, me too. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,491]

Here is the Kohler service manual
http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/2226-engine-kohler-command-ch18-25-sm-2469006-revcpdf/

Item K was the spring I was thinking of. There is another one at the end of the starter drive gear.

Garry

Edited July 30, 2015 by gwest_ca

[papaglide 541]

How important is the rubber cover that covers the plunger on the solenoid. I went and took off the solenoid and noticed that I had the old rubber cover on the plunger and it didn't quite fit. The new rubber cover that came with the new selenoid fits and covers a lot more. Does the rubber insulate the selenoid at all? Also, is it important to orientate the plunger itself a certain way?

[Rick_in_CT 156]

The rubber cover is a dust cover.  It is not there for "electrical" insulation.  The Kohler manual does not indicate that there is a orientation to the solenoid plunger.  If there is no specific key design or shape at the end of the plunger that needs to engage with the drive lever, then there is probably not any particular orientation. 

If the starter is spinning without turning they key, or even having the key in the switch, it sounds like there is a mis-wire and a ground connection is being made at the solenoid all the time.  When wired correctly, you have the positive 12VDC connection to the solenoid, which supplies a constant 12V to the starter, no matter if the key is or not.  The missing link is a ground, which is supplied when you turn the key to the start position.  The ground comes down from the key switch, through the start relay (K2), and to the solenoid.  It sounds like you have a connection that is getting a ground constantly, rather than being controlled by the key switch.

I would first double check the wire connections to the back of the key switch.  Looking at the switch from the back where the connections are, the brown wire should be on the single tab, with the rest of the wires connected to create the pattern shown below. 

                  Brown
Violet                        Red
Pink                          Orange

The ground connection is the brown wire.  The manual shows that the wire is brown from the key switch to relay K2.  Coming out of relay K2 the wire becomes blue, and should be the blue wire connected to the solenoid.  Double check the key switch wire as above, if you find an error correct it and re-test.  If you don't find any errors, you can use an ohm meter or dc test light to check the blue wire to see if it has a constant connection to ground, which is what we don't want.  We want the key switch to control the connection to ground, and to complete the circuit to activate the starter only when the key is turned to "start".

To test the blue wire, remove the key from the ignition. Keep the 12V hooked up to the solenoid.  If testing with an ohm meter, set the meter to ohms, and if it is a digital meter you should have a numeral 1 on the display.  Connect one lead of the meter to the blue wire (does not matter which lead on the meter you use) and the other to a good clean ground on the tractor.  If the meter reads zero or something significantly below 1, then the wire is getting a ground from somewhere it shouldn't be.  If you want to test using a DC test light, remove the blue wire from the solenoid and connect the test light from the blue wire to the 12V connection at the starter.  The light should not light if everything is correct.  If the light does come on, then it is telling you that the blue wire is going to ground, even with the key switch off.

If the above test does indicate that the blue wire at the solenoid is getting a ground with the key off, I would start troubleshooting it by removing the brown wire from the key switch and doing the above test again to see if the ground goes away (which is what we want).  If it goes away, then we need to figure out how it is getting a ground out of the switch with the switch off.  If the ground at the blue wire remains even with the brown wire disconnected at the switch, I would then remove the relay K2 and see if the ground opens/goes away.  If it does, it will give some direction as where to look next.  Relay K2 is the center relay of the three relays on the firewall.

Provide some feedback or ask questions if I'm not clear on the above.

Rick  
 

[papaglide 541]

Rick, your instructions are simply awesome. I don't have time today, but I will definitely investigate this tomorrow. You have given me some hope sir!

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I saw on your status that you solved this problem, can you update us on the solution? Thanks! @papaglide

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

I saw on your status that you solved this problem, can you update us on the solution? Thanks! @papaglide

I think Mike must have missed this, so I will take the liberty of answering for him. 

 

I am far from a mechanic, but I know some basics, and I'm good at figuring out how stuff works. 

 

Garry mentioned a spring on the plunger, so I started looking at whether the solenoid plunger had spring pressure. It did.  I noticed the plastic fork in the starter had a notch in the center, and the plunger on the solenoid had the sides flattened except the end, so I figured out the plunger must fit into the slot in the fork in the starter. Put it back together, and success. 

[papaglide 541]

Thanks Brian. I have been off the forum for a while. 

Without his his help that tractor still wouldn't be running!

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

Glad I could figure it out and learn something in the process
 

[squonk 38,908]

I have seen those plungers stuck quite often especially on import cars