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mmmmmdonuts

Raider 12 axle leaking

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mmmmmdonuts

Was mowing the lawn for the first time this year with a 68 Raider with a 6 speed with a 5060 transmission. When I stopped mowing I saw a puddle of axle fluid coming out where the arrow is pointed below. It is only coming out on the left side of the tractor. Is this easy fix to seal this up if I take the tire and axle hub off or do I have to remove the entire transmission?

Thanks for the help.
Bob

Wheel horse 5060 transmission.jpeg

Edited by mmmmmdonuts

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rmaynard

As long as the hub comes off, and there is no up/down motion to the axle (indicating a bad bearing), replacing the seal is fairly easy from the outside of the case. 

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stevasaurus

Yes, you can dig out that seal and replace it without dropping the trans.  I think the 5060 has 1 1/8" axles...that seal would be SKF 11050.  If, by chance, the axle is 1" use SKF 9815.  :)  The seal is only about 1/8" thick, just use an ice pick or small screw driver to dig it out.  As Bob hinted, if you have a bad bearing...a new seal is not going to fix your problem.  Check for up/down and side/side movement in the axle when you get the seal out.  Slop in the axle would indicate a bad bearing.  :)

Edited by stevasaurus
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mmmmmdonuts

Alright. Thank you. I will try and look at play in the axle and hopefully it is an easy fix with just replacing the seal.

Thanks,
Bob

 

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mmmmmdonuts

So got some good news and some bad news. The good news is there is no play in the axle at all and I got the oil seal in. The bad news is it looks like the axle hub is WELDED onto the axle rather than using a woodruff key. (the other axle is not welded go figure) Any thoughts or suggestions on how to fix the leak rather than grinding off the weld and finding who knows what on the axle? I am worried the key is screwed up big time and that is why it was welded in the first place.

Thanks

Bob

 

IMG_20150605_154846253.jpg

Edited by mmmmmdonuts
Added the wrong picture

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stevasaurus

Unless I am missing something here...how did you fix he leak??  OMG, what a butcher job in the last 2 pictures.  OK...how far do you want to go with this??  Give us a pick of the horse.  If you have a few skills with tools and saws/grinders...we can help you make this right.  Do you want to go there?  :eusa-think:

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Racinbob

I'm confused too unless you mean you got the other side fixed. Really Bob, there's nothing to lose so you might as well dive into it with Steve. You might be pleasantly surprised.:)

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Racinbob

Ah ha! You must mean you got the other side fixed. Your first post is pointing to the left side with the hub removed. If you do have to replace the axle at least you won't have a problem opening up the tranny.

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mmmmmdonuts

Sorry for the confusion. I meant I got the oil seal shipped to my house. I did not get it onto the tractor yet. Sorry for the confusion. I am just going to get the grinder going and see what I can do.

Edited by mmmmmdonuts
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stevasaurus

Well, first off...we are going to want a whole bunch more pictures for what you have there.  You could save us a whole bunch of questions by telling us you have a fair amount of tools and you know how to use them.  We can make this transmission whole if you want to.  :) 

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squonk

As bad as that axle looks I don't think it can be saved. You might get the hub off by grinding out that weld, But I doubt you will even get a good hub to fit nice and tight on it.That axle is tore up. Replace the axle and hub or find another trans. Those hubs and axle need a good fit to work properly and give you something you can depend on.

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mmmmmdonuts

Here are some more photos. As you can see there are two main welds to the axle from the hub. I started trying to grind through one. It has broken free completely but it looks like some of the weld might have gotten deeper into the hub, so that will be difficult to grind out.

As far as the tools I have, I basically have a grinder, sawzall, drills, sockets, wrenchs and other basic wood working tools. I don't have a torch or plasma cutter or anything. The biggest thing I am missing is a welder. I could possibly get access to one for a bit but it would be a flux core welder and my welding skills are lacking to say the least.

At the moment the right side axle does not leak any gear oil. The left side is the only one that leaks and that was after that tractor is warm (30 minutes + running). It doesn't leak when cooled down as far as I can tell.

The left axle has very little play in it at all and does not rattle or anything. I was just looking to change the oil seal and the fluid afterwards. My goal was not to tear down the entire transmission if possible.

I was wondering if I could cut the oil seal and put it on the axle and try and put a 5 minute epoxy or some sort of glue to hold the seal back together and put it on?

Thanks for the help

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Racinbob

No, that won't work. Not a chance. It's not difficult to work on the tranny, but it can be intimidating. You have plenty of help here to walk you through it. I strongly recommend fixing it right. More confusion here. That pic in your first post isn't the tranny we're trying to help you with, right?

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rmaynard

If it were mine, I would rap on the back of the hub with a big hammer until the c-clip pops off the end of the axle inside the differential. Then you can pull the axle out, open the case and retrieve the clip. Get a replacement axle and hub and put it back together with your new seal.

Jusy my two cents worth.

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Racinbob

I think I'd cut the axle rather than beat the clip free. Why not take a shot at saving it. I'm thinking not likely but what the heck.

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oldredrider

Racinbob is right. Pull the tranny and split the case. Replace the axle (they are available) check the internals, replace the seals and fix it properly. No more worries. Total "no brainer".

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mmmmmdonuts

RacinBob - no the first picture is not my tranny. It was something I found quick to demonstrate where it was leaking. 

I will attempt to fix it by taking it apart and checking the internals and fixing the axle correctly. 

Any tricks to take it apart? 

Also my parking brake doesn't stay engaged. Is this something I can check while in the transmission? Regular brakes work. 

Edited by mmmmmdonuts
Added parking brake

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Racinbob

Yes. The first thing to do is download the repair manual here. Read and digest the section for your transmission. Then watch the videos here. Then feel free to ask more questions and help will be a keystroke away. Once you open one up you'll wonder why you were worried. Basically, I'm just wanting you to get an idea of what you're dealing with and that will make it much more beneficial for you and easier for the folks here to help you out.

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Racinbob

I missed the part about the parking brake. It's entirely external and very simple. Just ignore it until you get the axle fixed and reinstalled on the tractor. It only needs adjusting. You may want to drain the transmission and pour some diesel fuel in it. Run it easy for a short spell and drain again. I'd suggest replacing all the seals while you're at it. They all can be replaced without the transmission apart but it's a lot easier this way. Before you slide any seal on make certain there are no burrs on the shaft. Of course, while you're inside check all the bearings, etc.

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mmmmmdonuts
Thank you. Just putting together an initial list of the seals and gaskets I need based on stevasaurus 3rd pdf and if there are any other's I am missing please let me know:

Axle Seal (2) - SKF 11050
Input Shaft Seal (1) - SKF 6105
Brake Shaft Seal (1) - SKF 7410
Gasket - WH#3912

Thanks for the help. I am going to try and get the drain plug out and get some diesel in and clean the gears first.

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stevasaurus

Well, much has happened here since I went golfing yesterday.  Thanks for the pictures.  I have the same tools as you do, so this will be a piece of cake.  Your 1968 raider 12 should have the Wheel Horse # 5060 transmission.   It is a 10 pinion limited slip differential with 1 1/8" axles.

I would not hammer the hub trying to knock off the "c" clip that holds the axle in the differential.  Take your Sawzall with a metal blade and cut the axle behind the hub.  The axle is not hardened steel and will cut very easily.  I would run some diesel through in to clean it out...much cleaner job then.  Read the manual to get the trans off the horse.  You want to put the trans in something so that the shallow side of the trans (the input shaft side) is down.  You will not have to take all the gears out of the trans...the differential will pull right out.  You just have to take apart the differential and change out your axle.  In your differential, the axles are not the same length, you need the shorter one 11 1/4" WH # 7203.     Send a PM to Racinfool40 (Mike)...he might have your axle and hub.  :)  We may have to shop at the Big Show for a hub though. :eusa-think:

This link shows me rebuilding the same trans you have...one of the videos is putting the differential together. 
http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/49386-6-speed-5060-10-pinion-ls-trans-rebuild/

Take a lot of pictures.  :)

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squonk

I have a couple of hubs off of a 5060 that I'm bringing to the show for sale. But if Steve's involved, No hot Chicago Gangsta money! :)

Edited by squonk
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mmmmmdonuts

A few months later and I am finally able to start working on the tranny. Just updating with some pictures. Actually started about 3 weeks ago, but progress has been extremely slow to say the least. As you can see the fluid looked like some nice chocolate milk. Put some diesel fuel in the case and shook it up good to try and clean any of the grime out.I took a sawzall blade to the welded axle hub (the diablo thick metal cutting blades are awesome!!! albeit $10 a pop) and cut it clean off. Next I tried to remove the other hub, using a pulley puller and eventually ended snapping the hub in two locations. So I then took a sawzall to that and cut the hub off, but managed to salvage the axle. After that I tried like all hell to remove the hitch pin. I eventually cut it to drop the hitch. I then tried to heat the transmission case and apply wax and remove it to no avail. I then drilled out a 1/2 inch hole and since I didn't have any bigger bits on hand I ended up taking a jigsaw/hacksaw approach to slice it out. I eventually got it cut and then tapped it out easily as you can see the hitch pin in the second to last picture.

Now this is where I stand. The only two things I have left to remove are the brake pulley and the shifter. I am not sure entirely how to remove the brake pulley or if I even have to? Is it a little clip on it and then it should just pull off? It is very hard for me to tell exactly what it is in that area. The bigger problem I have is the shifter. The setscrew snapped when I tried to remove it, so now I am trying to drill it out. Any other tips because it is quickly dulling my cobalt bit(s) and not wanting to go much further without a better plan. I was going to possibly try a left handed drill bit (I think Napa sells it??). I already tried a screw extractor and that did not work well at all. I keep soaking it in pb blaster as well. Thoughts or suggestions.

The good news is once I actually get it apart things are hopefully looking good based on seeing glimpses of inside the case. Things look very clean and functional. Hopefully it won't take long to examine once I can get the case open.

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stevasaurus

Looks good.  That brake drum is held on by a "C" clip.  I remove the clip and take a 2' pry bar and tap it in, behind the drum to break it loose.  It does have a Woodruff key in there.  Once it moves enough to get my wheel puller on it, I use that.  They usually come off with out a lot of fuss.  The input pulley works the same way.  :)

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mmmmmdonuts

Alright managed to finally get it cracked open. Seems like a good stopping point for the night. After a brief initial check everything looks very clean and in really, really great shape. Other than changing the axle is there some other quick checks that I should do? I can probably grab a picture or two in the morning to show the inside of it. The gears initially all look like they are moving freely (as they should never really had an issue with it). Thanks for the help.

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