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"D"- Man

How To Make An 18 Automatic Into A 23 Automatique LSE

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Nice. :bow-blue:  :bow-blue: :bow-blue:  :bow-blue:  :bow-blue:  :bow-blue:  

 

Thanks Elliot, I must say, for being done via Ruste-o- rattle can I am quite impressed with the finish.  A close look will expose the runs in the paint; however, I purposely left it that way, because I am far from a professional, and it's nigh unto impossible to  avoid runs with this method. 

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I've been waiting for this build thread for a long while! :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Now get to it! :teasing-whipblue:

 

 

:ychain:

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I've been waiting for this build thread for a long while! :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Now get to it!

 

 

Thanks Brandon for being patient and waiting so long on this build thread. Assembly Order pg.#2 includes the steering bell crank and the bushing for the same. Because this is a resto-mod I took my liberty to select non OEM tie rod ends due mainly to the fact that I was only able to locate and purchase one N.O.S. I found some designed for a Volkswagen and these are also included as AO Part 2.  They are larger than stock and consequently do not clear the frame with a standard height Bell Crank. I have alleviated this simply by cutting off a slice of a broken Bell Crank and having it welded to my good one. Now I have to cut a portion of another bushing and have it welded to my N.O.S. bushing. The tie rod ends are also longer and will require both the tie rods and the drag link to be narrowed and then I can proceed with the machining out of the old threads and tapping new threads. Sounds easy but the new threads are not only metric, but some are right threaded and some are left threaded. I have it scheduled for Tuesday hope this can be completed by the end of next week.

Edited by 23 Automatic LSE

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Will be great to follow along. You sure have talent.

Glenn

Thanks Glenn, I really do not consider it anything that is beyond what any other member could do if they simply try.  I failed to add a picture of the area of this frame that was pitted from rust, so bad that I had to do a little bodywork to it.  I also took a just for fun picture of the "LSE" style steering wheel mocked up on the frame while I had the bodywork finished, Mark.

post-3038-0-26933200-1431140802_thumb.jp

post-3038-0-13866900-1431140813_thumb.jp

post-3038-0-44730400-1431140825_thumb.jp

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Mark, is that the corvette checkerd flags I see on the center cap? Cool wheel,,,,,,,,thumbs up.

Glenn

Bingo!  I had a Grant GT cap that I tried to add a Wheel Horse logo to but it didn't turn out very well, so I purchased this Corvette Flags cap new, and like the way it looks much better.  I also am awaiting a chrome "V"-Twin horn to install so it will actually honk when the horn cap is pressed, Mark.

Edited by 23 Automatic LSE
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I took the 2 tie rods, the drag link, one each, of the new Rt and Lf threaded ball joints, 2 metric taps, 2 Bell Crank bushings and my extra tall Bell Crank, along with some stuff to make a hub puller, to the machinist / welder Tuesday.  I need to have the 2 tie rods, and the drag link narrowed 3/8"  on each end, before drilling and tapping the new threads. Then one bushing needs cut and welded to the other one, to make it extra long.  I will have to grind down the weld a little and cut some openings in the middle contact area to permit grease to pass as I have decided to only use one grease zirk in the Bell Crank.  When this work is completed and I get the parts back I will proceed to pg. #2 of my Assembly Order list, this should take me to the 49th step, which should complete Part #2.  

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 I have spoken to the machinist / welder and it looks like he may be able to get to do some, hopefully all, the work this week, Mark. Edited by 23 Automatic LSE

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After the 2 tie rods, the drag link, the bell crank and the bushing work was completed, I had the frame taken down to bare metal via media blasting, I also had a go at filling the pitted areas in the frame with Lab Metal. Then I proceeded with hand sanding off the rust preventive coating in preparation of a pass at powder-coating.  The powder-coating facility hopes to be able to get to it next Friday.  This will give me a bit of time to finish up a little more hand sanding.  Once the powder-coating is complete, I will be proceeding with the reassembly.

Edited by "D"- Man
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 :dunno: Hard to tell, how old this thread is...

but, I'd like to see how that frame turned out. 

                         :wwp:

 

Edited by AMC RULES
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I'm in the process of rebuilding the steering linkage parts in my D180/18Auto whatever it is (tag missing, arrrgghh) and ran into the same issue with the rod ends being NLA and generic ones not having enough clearance to the frame/attach a matic rods ... SO -

 

I ordered 4 1/2-20RHx1/2" rod ends (heim joints) , jam nuts , 1/2"-7/16" sleeve adapters, 4 rod end boots from www.steinjager.com and got busy ....

I hate the steering's turning radius on the D...it takes a mile to turn it around , so I welded the hole shut on the idler arm with the tig and moved it 3/8" inward . Not fun, welding cast with the tig and using the special EZ Weld rod created some hardened nickle/carbon deposits so it took a solid carbide burr to get the hole done , glad that's over .

 

I got lucky and had a pair of the inner tie rod ends NOS so won't have to deal with trying to fit rod ends (heims) in there and clear the frame . I did have to machine a whole new bushing and slightly resize the idler , though - it was pretty worn and wobbled enough to introduce further play in the steering wheel . I used a chunk of iron/copper/bronze high load bushing from McMaster.com (1/2"x1"x3") and turned it to a final dimension of 1/2" x .8775" x 2.010" after resizing the bore in the arm to make the hole parallel .

 

20161104_135218[1].jpg

 

20161105_191124[1].jpg

 

Installed the drag link and idler last night

 

20161105_203908[1].jpg

 

Btw - that idler is painted with Rustoleum high zinc Cold Galvanizing base/ Sprayon Welder's stainless steel paint (316SS ground pigment) . Testing to see how it holds up to weather/salt conditions - Illinois winters suck...

 

Working on the front axle/spindles/wheel bearings today . Spindles are worn a bit , axle holes are worn as well and both side had worn out/broken the needle thrust bearings on the spindle/bottom face of the axle where it bears the D's weight . Got a whole new set of 3/4" x 1-1/4" needle thrust bearings and the thinner recommended bearing spacers/washers from McMaster last week - man, I love that place . Order before 6pm - here the next day via UPS - only benefit to living in Illinois , other than more corn than you could ever eat .

 

Front axle is getting bored to .875 (7/8") with a bridge/car reamer and going to use 3/4" x 7/8" x 3" iron/copper/bronze high load sleeve bearings from , you guessed it - McMaster . One spindle really should be replaced but will work for now , that bronze alloy doesn't wear easily and should be fine until I locate a good used 3/4" spindle - haven't checked the other side yet .

I'll try to load up some more pics if you want once the axle is done and a list of materials/supplies...

 

Sarge

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, AMC RULES said:

 :dunno: Hard to tell, how old this thread is...

but, I'd like to see how that frame turned out. 

                         :wwp:

 

Craig, I am hoping it turns out nice.

 

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

I'm in the process of rebuilding the steering linkage parts in my D180/18Auto whatever it is (tag missing, arrrgghh) and ran into the same issue with the rod ends being NLA and generic ones not having enough clearance to the frame/attach a matic rods ... SO -

 

I ordered 4 1/2-20RHx1/2" rod ends (heim joints) , jam nuts , 1/2"-7/16" sleeve adapters, 4 rod end boots from www.steinjager.com and got busy ....

I hate the steering's turning radius on the D...it takes a mile to turn it around , so I welded the hole shut on the idler arm with the tig and moved it 3/8" inward . Not fun, welding cast with the tig and using the special EZ Weld rod created some hardened nickle/carbon deposits so it took a solid carbide burr to get the hole done , glad that's over .

 

I got lucky and had a pair of the inner tie rod ends NOS so won't have to deal with trying to fit rod ends (heims) in there and clear the frame . I did have to machine a whole new bushing and slightly resize the idler , though - it was pretty worn and wobbled enough to introduce further play in the steering wheel . I used a chunk of iron/copper/bronze high load bushing from McMaster.com (1/2"x1"x3") and turned it to a final dimension of 1/2" x .8775" x 2.010" after resizing the bore in the arm to make the hole parallel .

 

20161104_135218[1].jpg

 

20161105_191124[1].jpg

 

Installed the drag link and idler last night

 

20161105_203908[1].jpg

 

Btw - that idler is painted with Rustoleum high zinc Cold Galvanizing base/ Sprayon Welder's stainless steel paint (316SS ground pigment) . Testing to see how it holds up to weather/salt conditions - Illinois winters suck...

 

Working on the front axle/spindles/wheel bearings today . Spindles are worn a bit , axle holes are worn as well and both side had worn out/broken the needle thrust bearings on the spindle/bottom face of the axle where it bears the D's weight . Got a whole new set of 3/4" x 1-1/4" needle thrust bearings and the thinner recommended bearing spacers/washers from McMaster last week - man, I love that place . Order before 6pm - here the next day via UPS - only benefit to living in Illinois , other than more corn than you could ever eat .

 

Front axle is getting bored to .875 (7/8") with a bridge/car reamer and going to use 3/4" x 7/8" x 3" iron/copper/bronze high load sleeve bearings from , you guessed it - McMaster . One spindle really should be replaced but will work for now , that bronze alloy doesn't wear easily and should be fine until I locate a good used 3/4" spindle - haven't checked the other side yet .

I'll try to load up some more pics if you want once the axle is done and a list of materials/supplies...

 

Sarge

 

 

 

 

 

Sarge, I am using metric threaded tie rod ends due to the lack of availability issues, {I do have 1 new old stock 103416 Rt threaded and 2 new old stock 103417's Lt threaded  tie rod ends, I have been collecting.}  I have done a mock-up to check for clearance and so far everything is in alignment and this approach appears to be a workable solution, under no load; however, I will need to wait till it can be tested under load.  s-l1600.jpg

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Good idea - not sure about how much metal is on the head where the stud is joined - looks as though it's two separate pieces pressed together ?

 

One issue with these is those tapered holes - I have yet to see one that isn't ovaled out at least some - that wear can be an issue later . That's the reason you can't just directly use 3/8" bolts and reduced diameter rod ends easily , such as the ones from McMaster . Btw, the ones I got from them where QA1 brand , just fyi...

 

Sarge

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8 hours ago, Sarge said:

Good idea - not sure about how much metal is on the head where the stud is joined - looks as though it's two separate pieces pressed together ?

 

One issue with these is those tapered holes - I have yet to see one that isn't ovaled out at least some - that wear can be an issue later . That's the reason you can't just directly use 3/8" bolts and reduced diameter rod ends easily , such as the ones from McMaster . Btw, the ones I got from them where QA1 brand , just fyi...

 

Sarge

By the looks of your steering bell crank the two tapered holes look good, is this approach alleviating the grease zirk?  I am very fortunate in that the taper on the metric tie rod ends have the same taper as the bell crank.  The meteric tie rod end housing is all one piece, and a bit larger than the O.E.M.

Edited by "D"- Man

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No , I sized the bushing to a final .0055" clearance - the grease zerk still does the job of lubrication . The tapered holes in the bell crank/idler are fine for now but are a bit out of spec - I'm using two NOS inside stock rod ends for the time being . When they wear out I think I can fit reduced bore heims and still clear the frame .

 

Please follow up when you test out those metric rod ends , I'm sure others are going to need a source sooner or later .

Does that rod end share the 1/2-20 LH thread dimension or are you changing the tie rod tubes as well ??

 

Sarge

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On 11/9/2016 at 9:23 AM, Sarge said:

No , I sized the bushing to a final .0055" clearance - the grease zerk still does the job of lubrication . The tapered holes in the bell crank/idler are fine for now but are a bit out of spec - I'm using two NOS inside stock rod ends for the time being . When they wear out I think I can fit reduced bore heims and still clear the frame .

 

Please follow up when you test out those metric rod ends , I'm sure others are going to need a source sooner or later .

Does that rod end share the 1/2-20 LH thread dimension or are you changing the tie rod tubes as well ??

 

Sarge

Thanks Sarge, No, these are metric on both of the threads, I had to have the tie rods bored out and retapped to the pitch of the larger tie rod ends. I also am using these on the drag link so this was bored and retaped as well.

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This guy carries proper sized DOM tubing for making your tie rods and such - great service and fast shipping from Indiana ...

http://www.qscomponents.com/

 

That is where I got half of the QS1 parts , reducers , jam nuts and such . He's way under priced compared to big box outlets like Summit...

Sarge

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On 11/6/2016 at 9:38 AM, AMC RULES said:

 :dunno: Hard to tell, how old this thread is...

but, I'd like to see how that frame turned out. 

                         :wwp:

 

Just received the frame back from the powder-coater.  It looks nice,  I took my liberty to have it done in gloss black.  They used 2 mill thickness on the powder.  Now I need to start assembling it.

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Finally began the assembly, have the front axle, spindles, tie rod ends, tie rods and the steering bell-crank/bushing complete. Next will be the front wheels and tires.

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Just a bit of an update with some images of the powder coated frame. Front, Rear, Top, Right side, Left side and Under side.  I did not fill all the pitting on the rear where the transaxle bolts to, or the underside.  The top was just as pitted as the underside, if not worse, prior to filling with the Lab Metal and finishing it close to a smooth surface.  I have added some pics of the frame with just the lab metal finish.  IMG_20170113_221348.jpgYou may be able to click on the pics to enlarge.

P.S.  This is a frame from an 18 Automatic,  even though it does not have the seat spring mount, I removed it in order to be able to add the hydro cooling fan.

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Edited by "D"- Man
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Going to be one special D horse when you are finished. Great job👍🏻

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