rebuilt it or replace it with good used? 417a siezed

[workingwrench 0]

Never done any forums so bear with me, Just bought my second wheel horse yesterday.

 It is a (1986) 417a with a stuck engine, nice other than that. I bought it to use for parts, knowing engine had failed. However after getting it home,  I'm torn some. It's just too nice to part out! It is actually a better tractor than my 312H from 1991.

The engine turns over about a half turn then stops up, then turn opposite direction and until about the same place in the rotation of the engine and stops again.  It appears that it was ran dry of oil, Not good, I figure a broken rod???? I have never torn apart a twin cylinder engine.

I have found a used 17HP engine for it for $350. Do you all know if that is a good deal?

Could my engine be rebuilt? if so how much?  

Any  advice is appreciated thanks in advance.

Not sure how to add pics or I would have.

I even considered taking the 312h and swapping that engine into the frame of the 417a... but 5hp is a lot of difference.

Should I avoid the 17hp series 2 engines?  Thanks

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Welcome! 17hp series 2 are very good engines... assuming you keep oil in them!

 

350 is a pretty good price, but sounds like it might need some work. MAKE SURE its a series two for longest reliability, and try to be sure it was designed for a wheel horse. The manual PTO on wheel horses puts a high side-load on the crank so most engines were fitted specially to handle the side-load.

 

Assuming there's no major damage your engine can be rebuilt, however, you would expect between $800-1800 depending on how bad it is and if you have a shop do it for you. The bonus to this is that you would have a practically new KT17 series 2 that will easily last 20+ years with proper maintenance.

 

You can also swap in a kohler single if you want. They are usually only 3-600 for a rebuild and are available up to 16hp.

 

Or if you can buy a kit to swap in a 23HP v-twin briggs, but that runs over $2k i think.

Edited April 17, 2015 by bmsgaffer

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

My first choice would be to investigate the current engine some more. I would tend to think a broken rod, as well, if you can only turn it so far. A shop may be able to resurrect it cheaper than another engine.

 

Buying a used engine that you haven't seen running is an iffy situation. The new Harbor Freight Twin (22 hp) would be a possibility at about $600+ depending on what needs to be adapted to make it fit. There are re-power kits from suppliers that would be about twice that using Honda/Vanguard engines. They are basically plug-and-play with the engineering done for you. Another possibility is the Carroll Stream 10 hp diesel. I just got a tractor last month with this engine and I am very impressed with the power it has. It is not a difficult swap and cost would be between the other two re-powers. I don't think it would give up much to the original twin. It does go further on fuel! 

 

The 312H is basically the same tractor as the 417A as it has the Eaton 11 so I'm not sure much would be gained with swapping the engine.

[JackC 616]

A direct replacement engine that runs good would be the quickest and easiest way to go.

[Forest Road 594]

Depends on your needs. How large a deck or snowblower do you run? 10-14hp Kohlers are plenty for 42" decks and single stage blowers. Harbor fright clones are cheap. A few members have had some success with them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pickle 42]

I rebuilt my KT17 II last year and it ran about $1000, new rods, pistons, valves, cylinders, bearings, sleeves. Some of the parts are becoming difficult to locate.

 

Documenting my KT17 II overhaul:

Edited April 18, 2015 by Pickle

[workingwrench 0]

Thanks to all the replies!!! I have a great running 12hp on my 312h that I'm considering putting into the frame of the 417A. After doing some looking; it looks like they should interchange. use the 417 with the 12 while I rebuild the 417a. I can't find parts very easy for the kt17, or at least I think that is the model its called. I can find everything under the sun for the 12hp engines. Is that 12 going to be enough motor for it? even to use to mow normal length grass. 5hp less seems like a huge change. I don't regret buying the 417 but I see how easy it is to just start keeping them all and fixing each one. I'll run out of parking inside garage pretty quick!

I have found a couple of the 18hp and a few of the 20hp Onans  complete tractors... But I'm holding off. I would prefer to keep it original. Is the 17Hp engine a good one to invest in? Or Pick up a different size that is more durable??? Haven't found a rebuild kit anywhere yet with pistons and rods. Going to check site mentioned above, Thanks Again

I really don't need it to mow with, I just like to mow some areas with rider vs ZTR. Considering getting a tiller for one of them. 

[workingwrench 0]

is there a place on site to post for in search of post? So I could for example "looking for a good running 17hp for a 417a" and see if anyone has one?

[WH nut 553]

is there a place on site to post for in search of post? So I could for example "looking for a good running 17hp for a 417a" and see if anyone has one?

Yep, way down on the bottom

[Ken B 3,116]

I have owned a few 417's. They are a favorite of mine and the reason for that is because of the power under its hood. The KT17 Series 2 is an excellent engine and one of the best that Wheel Horse ever put under the hoods of their tractors. If you can confirm that the KT 17 that you found is a Series 2 engine and that it runs good that is a good price at 350.00. That is the way I'd go.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Ken B

[SgtBob 27]

Workingwrench,

 

This has the Series II motor that runs great.  The tractor its self is not the best.  I have been looking for a 417 carcass but would sell the tractor as is for $300 or be interested in buying your 417A

 

Located in St Johns, MI 48879

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2015 by SgtBob