416-8 input shaft seal

[Ponder 9]

I purchased a 416-8 that has just over 500 hours showing on the meter. (Highly doubtful that this is the correct number of hours). Anyway, I purchased it from a small engine shop that supposedly specialized in refurbished wheel horse tractors. The shop cleaned and serviced the mower with fluids and belts. Upon getting it home my wife noticed it was dripping oil from underneath. It is coming from the output shaft seal/bearing. I removed the drive belt and the shaft is sloppy loose. I removed the pulley and shaft key. Checking on this site I saw a post here with a member saying the seal can be removed from the outside of the case by drilling a hole and using a bearing puller to remove it. So, I tried this thinking if it's a post from this site, it must be right. After hitting and chiseling and hitting some more, I realized there is no way this can come out from outside. So, I take it to Killians hardware in hickory nc to find out this is WRONG!!!!.

It's in their shop right now awaiting its turn in the service lineup where the transmission must be removed and the case split and replaced internally. They are hopeful that I didn't damage the case to the point it will have to be replaced. So far, I know I'm going to have $2000 in this mower accounting for the $1400 I paid for the mower and the cost of the transmission repairs (that's if I didn't damage the case). It has the Oman engine. Should I cut my losses and just scrap the thing and strike it up as a lesson learned or stay with the plan and cross my fingers there aren't other issues lurking in this unit?????

[slammer302 2,154]

I would fix it and use it. These old horses do need sum work from time to time but its usually enjoyable work like cleaning and regular maintenance I personally stay away from onan powers horses but if it runs good then you should be fine

[rmaynard 14,865]

In the title you said input shaft, but in the body of the post it says output. I am assuming you meant input. The input shaft should not be sloppy loose. If it is, the problem is more than likely the bearing and not just the seal. A seal on the input shaft is easy to remove and should not have presented the problems you described. If it were me, I would have taken it back to the shop where I got it and had them repair what should have been fixed before you bought it.

 

Is it worth it to repair? Yes. Worst case scenario is that you have to find another good used transmission that should be available for anywhere from $100 to $200.

[Ed Kennell 35,626]

  the shaft is sloppy loose.

This means the bearing needs replaced, and it does have to be replaced from the inside.  A new seal would not have fixed this problem. 

    The Onans are good engines, but have a complicated electrical wiring system that has a history of failure. The rear cylinders  are also subject to overheating causing a loss of compression due to loosened valve seats.

There are many threads  and manuals on this site to show you how to repair the electrical  issues and how to prevent engine overheating  ......... and how to properly rebuild a transmission.

 

Sorry Bob,  you type faster than me.

Edited March 27, 2015 by ekennell

[doc724 924]

Ponder, from your description, the seal was already gone (missing) and you were whacking on the needle bearing, which as others have said can only be removed from the inside.  I like the idea of looking for another used transaxle and just swapping it out.  Many of us have spare transaxles on the shelf just for this kind of problem.  Note, the bearing removal on the input shaft is the more difficult side of the transaxle to work on.

[Racinbob 10,269]

Ponder, As the others here have mentioned, the bearing is shot. Take a look at the videos here and download the repair manual. It's really not a difficult fix. The seal can be done from the outside but not the bearing. You'll also want to inspect the input shaft for any damage that may have been cause by the bad bearing. Don't be intimidated. If you can turn a wrench and follow instructions you can fix it. There's plenty of folks here that will help you out.

[Ponder 9]

Thanks for the replies. I do know that it's the input shaft bearing that is the issue. I am a mechanic by trade. Not on lawn mowers or cars though. Killian's is a master wheel horse repair shop. And since they already have it and the parts to repair it, I will just leave things with them on this one. I read from your replies that the electrical systems have problems. How so? All the dash lights work on mine and other that the starter has a little bit of a "dry shaft" sound when cranking, I can't see any other issues.

As for the onan overheating issue, I figure as long as i keep the side vent clear of clippings and leaves all should be good.

I have a commercial zero turn mower I use at home and purchased this mower because I wanted one so bad when they were new but couldn't afford one back then. My intentions are to get the snow blade attachment to clear snow off my driveway a few times a year and take it to my vacation home at the coast to mow a quarter of an acre yard during the summer months. Also to use it as a pulling machine when I need to tow a golf cart or pull my zero turn out of the pond when I get a little too close to the edge.

[Ed Kennell 35,626]

The wiring issues are usually caused by overheating and break down of  of connectors  and fuse blocks due to corrosion .  It is common for the R/R( regulator/rectifier) to also fail.

 

   The air  flow across the back cylinder is restricted by the belt guard.   This low flow allows the grass clippings to build up in the engine cooling fins. The build up is really compounded if there is an oil leak at the oil filter mounting base. This grass and oil can block the cooling air very quickly.   

 

You can remove the R/R and look thru the hole to see if the cooling fins are dirty.     The only way to clean them is to remove all the engine tin.  This is recommended for any 10 year old Onan powered tractor that was used for mowing.