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aaubrey96

416-h Onan won't turn over

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aaubrey96

So my newest horse I got last month I think and it usually cranks right over and fires up for me but today I went to get on it and it won't turn over. The only safety light that is on is the engine oil which is flashing, I'm assuming to tell me there is no oil pressure because it's not running. The pto is off and I'm in the seat with my foot on the brake, do now I'm lost. I can't even find the cilonoid to jump it that way, so hopefully someone can help me through this.

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rmaynard

Check your fuses.

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aaubrey96

Oh duh I should've known that. Ok thanks I'll check them when I get home

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aaubrey96

Dosnt seem to be the issue. They all look good

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boovuc

On the Onan powered 400 and 500's, disconnect the battery then.............take every connector on the wire harness a part and spray it with electrical contact cleaner and put it back together. Check the battery terminals for corrosion. Check the solenoid connections and the key switch connections. Check the ground(s) and the starter connections. You can also disconnect the safety switches and connect the wires together to simulate the switch as being closed. Look for corrosion on the fuse block terminals. Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness.

Things warmed up and now dampness has set in. This reeks havoc on electrical connections.

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aaubrey96

Ok I'll try that tomorrow thanks

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rmaynard

What is the ID number or year of the 416-H?

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aaubrey96

I'm not sure. It's new enough to be a toro but it dosnt have the tag on the fender like my 414 and 252 do. Is that something toro changes the place of or do somebody repaint this tractor

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rmaynard

Tag should be on the left side of the fender pan, beside the seat.

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aaubrey96

That's what I though. Nothing there

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rmaynard

If you can trace a circuit, here is the "start" circuit for most 416-H's

 

post-2221-0-71815200-1426299555_thumb.pn

 

 

Looking at the above diagram, the power comes from the battery thru the 25A fuse to the ignition switch. Assuming the ignition switch is okay, when turned to "start", the power continues thru the closed PTO switch, and neutral safety switch to the coil of the start relay. If all is okay in that circuit, the relay closes applying power to the start solenoid.

 

Physically check all the switches in that circuit to see if they are operating. Sometimes the motion lever fails to engage the neutral switch, or the PTO lever fails to properly contact it's safety switch.

 

If you have a test light or meter, it's easy to see if they are working.

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rmaynard

On my 1996 416-H, you do not have to be in the seat, or have your foot on the brake in order for the start motor to engage. However, not doing that will cause the engine to have no spark, therefore not start, but it should turn over.

Edited by rmaynard

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nylyon

You're probably already tried this but wiggle the motion control lever while trying to start it

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aaubrey96

I did try it

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ericj

you can run a jumper wire from the battery + terminal to the coil + and see if it will start but then you still have to figure out what is keeping it from starting normally. check the 9 pin connector . lets back up a minute download and check the onan service manual if you haven't already and a wiring diagram and go through step by step. i had a 416-8 that i bought that the p o had tore apart and try to fix then gave up. after i put it back together i traced the problem back to either a wrong or bad ignition switch that i believe the p o had just changed. that took me and a friend a couple of hours to figure out. but we took it step by step and checked everything.     good luck  

 

 

 

 

eric j

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aaubrey96

Ok thanks. Can anyone tell me where the lever would be to let it free roll. I'd like to move it into my "shop" to work on it rather than my muddy front lawn

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Theroundhousernr

It has no hydro release like the earlier Sundstrand transmissions. What you want to do is push the motion control lever to the full forward position and then push slowly. Some push really hard and only go a little then need a break. Some push really easy. They all push hard right after they have been run but not a problem in your case. They also make this terrible clicking noise which seems to be normal. Just don't push it fast or long distance and you should be ok. If you can have a friend tow with another tractor would be best.  

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aaubrey96

You would thought they'd of put a release on it like my 252-h has

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ericj

use the jumper wire from the battery to the coil and start it up and drive it, but on the other hand the longer it sits the easier it gets to push so a couple of hrs later and the next day push real easy

 

 

 

eric j

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aaubrey96

Hooked the 414-8 to it tonight to pull it closer. I used low range second gear a touch above an idle, I figured that was about as fast as pushing it would've been. And right after I started tearing into it I found this 956b5974847784178e1c1e472c683aec.jpge4c76285905150b9ed0ef2abc33a18fa.jpg6ae3e7f262a5e1d9ff262318d15c9749.jpg after seeing how rough this plug that comes from this black box d8ff75c7da6f5e96145997c8b7639745.jpg I'm debating on connecting every wire individually, what do you guys think? You think that blue wire could be my issue?

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Edited by aaubrey96

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boovuc

From post #5:  Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness.

 

On the 400 and 500 series Wheelhorses......When they won't start, besides the usual checks of safety switches, you have to take those connectors a part and every single terminal connection plus the fuse block and look for decay, burnt contacts, corrosion, etc.

If they sat outside for any length of time in their service life, they are going to have electrical issues. Some have electrical issues without ever having sat outside.

You might find there are several bad connections that are causing the no start issue.

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aaubrey96

From post #5:  Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness.

 

On the 400 and 500 series Wheelhorses......When they won't start, besides the usual checks of safety switches, you have to take those connectors a part and every single terminal connection plus the fuse block and look for decay, burnt contacts, corrosion, etc.

If they sat outside for any length of time in their service life, they are going to have electrical issues. Some have electrical issues without ever having sat outside.

You might find there are several bad connections that are causing the no start issue.

on that last set of pictures that plug is melted or burnt.  can i get away with color matching the wires and waterproof butt conectors?

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Save Old Iron

Is this the connector to the indicator board?

 

If so, the wiring you show will have no effect on the tractor starting. A properly functioning INDICATOR board does just that - indicates. The display board does not control any starting functions. A shorted pcb (very rare) could possibly cause some issues with the safety system.

 

What are wire colors of the two positions showing melted connection areas?

Edited by Save Old Iron

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rmaynard

No reason why you can't, but if it was mine, and I was going to all that trouble, I'd just replace the whole 9-pin connector.

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aaubrey96

Blue, tan, and purple are the rough ones

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