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TunaSlayet

414-8 Milky Dipstick & gassy smell?

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TunaSlayet

I have a recently cleaned up 414-8 with the Kohler magnum 14 hp. A little history; the tractor was pretty badly abused when I bought it. Lots of new parts, tranny flush, and a whole bunch of little thing, and it drive and runs nice now. Love the tractor, but after 3 oil changes, I keep coming up with a white sludge on the dip stick. It definitely smells like gas. So my question is, what is the source of this mystery sludge. Motor runs excellent, and doesn't smoke. Starts very easily as well. Running 5w-30. It has definitely been below 32 degrees here in mass. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Definitely do not want to damage or cause excessive wear to my engine.

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Digger 66

Smells like gas ? 

Sounds like rings to me .


Is that a bike chain around your front tires ? 

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TunaSlayet

Yes sir, quality mod I found on red square somewhere. 20 bucks from tsc, little elbow grease, and your rolling. #50 roller chain. Makes steering much easier, and it bites into ice and snow real nice. Could not be happier with them. Actually considering painting them, or finding some kind of coating, because they rust up real fast. Couple passes, and they look good again, but seems to be a potential issue in the future. So rings...ahhhh. How bad is that to do?

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Digger 66

Haven't had to open mine up but generally , rings aren't too bad .

I just put new slugs in my Rotax but that's nothing like a Kohler .

I'm sure the experts will be along shortly.

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slammer302

I have a Kohler that smokes like a freight train and I've never had anything like that come up on the dip stick but I am far from a engine expert

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Shynon

I had a 12 hp magnum with the same problem, only thing I could tell was the breather was connected to the air filter, I always wondered if that had something to do with it. Only happened in the snow season. I would try and remove the breather hose from the air cleaner and plug the hole in the air cleaner backplate.  Put and older K series breather plate.

 

                     Tom

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TunaSlayet

I was wondering about that. The breather is one item that did not get looked at. I may take the breather apart tomorrow and have a look. Just a little concerning to see tho. I am fingers crossed that it is something simple. I just picked up a beat up 420 LSE that is going to need a lot of love, and my wife will have a hard time understanding how I have two tractors, and I can not clear the driveway.

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buckrancher

check the fuel pump for a leaking diaphgam

  • Like 5

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Hossenfeffa

An air cooled engine such as your Kohler, is going to have to be run quite a while, with a good load on it, to get rid of the condensation(milky white substance) in the cold winter months That fan (flywheel) is blowing ambient air temperature over the engine and below freeing temperatures are far different than 75 degrees in the summer. The oil needs to get good and hot to "burn off" that condensation. My k301 has the same thing in this cold Michigan winter. However I do not have the gas smell. Could be something as simple as a mis adjusted carburetor, choke not opening all the way, incorrect float level ect, as far as the gas smell goes. Check some of the simpler things before you go tearing into the engine.

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Don1977

I'am with buckrancher leaking fuel pump into the crank case.

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Ed Kennell

I'm with Buckrancher also .....fuel pump diaphragm leak.

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bmsgaffer

:text-yeahthat:

:text-yeahthat:

:text-yeahthat:

 

Fuel pump.

  • Like 1

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the_nite_owl

A lot of things can cause this to happen.

One of the most common causes I have seen is too much oil in the crankcase and it starts sucking up into the crankcase breather tube causing vacuum in the carb and pulling the fuel into the crankcase.

A clog in the breather tube or an oversaturated/clogged air filter can cause it to happen as well.  Once gas gets into the oil it gets thin and easily sucks down into the carb as well so your carb may need a good cleaning as well as the spark plug. 

Worn rings can cause the problem as well but as someone else pointed out above you would likely see a lot of smoking if the rings were bad as oil sucks past the rings into the cylinder. 

You can test the compression in the cylinder and see if it is within spec before tearing the engine down.  The more likely causes are the air passages or carb.

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TunaSlayet

So, I can see the fuel pump being an issue. Had the same problem on a Chevy 350. I do not remember overfilling the crankcase, but it is definitely a possibility. As far as burning off condensation, I totally agree. This tractor has never been ran by me in warmer temps, but it will this spring. I will take a look at the breather and fuel pump tonight, give the oil another sniff, and post back if I see any obvious issues. Thanks so much for all the replies. You guys are always at the ready to help with someone else's headache. Also, are there any "wear" items in the breather, like a pre cleaner of filter, or is it just a clean out kind of thing.

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doc724

Tuna, I have this same problem in the winter with my 98 314-no gas smell though.  It goes away after using the machine for 45 plus minutes snow blowing.  I do not have it in the xi.  I need to follow up on comments others made on the breather being clogged.  My 314 was really dirty when I got it.

 

BTW, we have two tractors equipped with blowers for winter duty.  Just tell your wife "it is always good to have back-up"

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shallowwatersailor

I know you have changed the oil before, but hopefully you did a quick oil change again. I run 30W in my Kohlers year round, but 10W-30 in the one I use sometimes in winter . If you were cranking the engine and it wouldn't start quite a few times, you may get gas down in the crankcase. Is the plug wet?

Edited by shallowwatersailor

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TunaSlayet

There is a 14.1 MB downloadable .PDF available from the following Kohler site that is very clear.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/manuals/landing.htm

I think I will put her out of commission until I replace the fuel pump, and clean the breather, and then replace the oil. It will probably take a few more oil changes to get it cleaned out, but I would rather just wait. It starts very easily even when cold, so I don't think it is flooding then, but I will pull the plug and read it to see what it looks like. If your breather was really clogged, mine is probably totally buggered. I had grass in my rear end, I mean my transmission, when I got it, so the breather probably looks the same. I post an update with pics if I get out there tonight. The 0 degree temps scare me a little bit tho.

Here is a pic of the tractor when I got it..post-12915-0-29640600-1425051040_thumb.j

Edited by TunaSlayet

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TunaSlayet

So I cleaned out the breather, and changed the oil to SAE 30. Also tried to clean as much sludge out of the dip stick tube. I am beginning to think this is mainly a moisture issue. There was a lot of condensation in the air filter, and vent assembly. Way more than I expected. Here are some before and after pictures. Kind of want to eliminate the moisture issue before I spend 100 bucks on a fuel pump. I smelled the oil in my 420, and smelled it in the 414, and it did not smell any more gassy, but I have a terrible sense of smell anyway. Does anyone know if gas creates this white sludge, or water? Or is it just a horrible combination of both..I'll tell ya, I have a lot of respect for a motor that can deal with oil like this, and not just explode immediately.

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km3h

Milky oil is cause by water or condensation. Gas will simply dilute the oil it will not change the color. It would take a lot of condensation to cause this.

Don't buy an oil pump if you don't smell gas in the oil. When the pump leaks gas into the crankcase, it really leaks a lot and the crankcase will overfill quickly.

Edited by km3h

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N3PUY

My Kohler Command 12.5 HP does the same thing ... even in summer.   It has a clear hose from the air cleaner to the engine and I can see the moisture in the hose on an 80 degree day.  I don't like it but I never figured out what to do about it.   

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can whlvr

condensation does that,run her hot and then take a look

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Shynon

Put and older K series  breather with the vent slots in the cover on it and plug the hole in the air cleaner back plate. I think that will solve your problem.

 

                     Tom

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boovuc

Hey Tuna!

 

Seeing your in Mass and the temps there are either the most coldest ever or second coldest ever recorded, I think I would have gone with 10w-30 oil for the remainder of the winter season then switch it back over to straight 30w. Still better with the straight 30w than what was in it!

 

Also, do you keep your tractor in a somewhat heated garage? If so, do you heat it with a non-vented gas heater? Is there a lot of water on the floor from snow coming off the cars?

I never saw that much condensation in a small engine that has to be running for long lengths of time. LP and NG Non-Vented heaters put a crap-load of moisture in the air. I just wonder if where your keeping the tractor is extremely humid and causing the issues.

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TunaSlayet

No heat in the garage, but it is definitely moist in there. It does get ran for short intervals usually. It take about 20 minutes to 1/2 hour to clear my driveway, and we have had a lot of these little storms. I have never opened up the breather, so it may have been full of junk before I got it, but now at least I have a base line to work off. The oil is not overfilling, so I am just going to work on the moisture issue for now. I like the idea of getting it good and hot to burn off the moisture. I will have to take it for a ride down the dunkin doughnuts drive through to stretch her legs a little.. Thanks for all the advice, and input guys! I will check around to see if I can get one of the K series breathers. Possible lindstrom wheelhorse? Definitely wanna put this one to bed. Water and my motor are not friends.

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squonk

While your at it replace the dip stick. That grommet can get hard and let moisture seep in there too

  • Like 1

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