Jump to content
Hendricksn

414-8 need electrical help

Recommended Posts

And the Key start has no M post. Just I B S R V

There is the start of your problem - wrong switch.

 

The original is part number 111215 replaced by 103991 at any Toro dealer.

A Napa replacement is 7-01893

Don't get them mixed up because the only difference is the I on one and the M on the other. You must use the M.

 

That should eliminate the short at the pto switch.

Let us know what happens next. I hope no further damage was done.

 

Garry

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I put the new switch in and nothing happened. Now I have nothing. As if the key start doesn't work at all. And it's the one from Napa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like when I turn the key. It's as if nothings happening. And when I jump the solenoid no spark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use this diagram to test the starter circuit. You can see where the power goes to get from the battery to the starter.

 

Make sure both battery cables are connected to the battery.

Follow the power with a test light or voltmeter starting at the 25 amp fuse that powers the red wire to the ignition switch. There are two 25 amp fuses so make sure both are good.

 

From now on remember the key must be in the START position when you make each test.

The pto must be OFF

When you get to the clutch switch the pedal must be down to close that switch. If you have power in the Lt Bu wire at the relay you can assume to pto switch and clutch switch are working properly.

 

Re is red wire

Ta is tan wire

Lt Bu is light blue

Dk Bu is dark blue

Pu is purple

 

If you do not have power at both oil level switch wires with the key in the START position check the oil level in the engine. That is a magnetic float switch in the base of the engine. If it needs to come out read the special instructions on how to get it out without causing damage to the switch. It is fragile.

 

Oil level switch instructions

 

Let us know what you find and we will continue.

 

If you click on the diagram it will enlarge.

 

Garry

post-120-0-09137000-1423478081_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there's power going into the switch via the red wire. And the 25 amp fuse is doing its job. But with the switch in the off position there's positive power coming out of the 2 dark blue wires. There's no power going out. In any of the wires. And the 15 amp headlight fuse is also good. And there's still nothing going on when you turn the key

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is what the wiring at the back of the ignition switch should look like.

 

#1 Dark green (Rectifier)

#2 White (Accessories)

#3 Dark blue (Magneto)

#4 Tan (Starter)

#5 Red (Battery)

 

 

This is how they should be positioned in the connector body

 

-------------#4 Tan------------ - by it's self

#1 Dark green and #5 Red - are side by side

#3 Dark blue and #2 White - are side by side

 

#Ground (Black) This one is off to the side of the switch body

 

If that is not what the wiring colors look like at the back of the ignition switch tell us what it is like.

 

 

Look at the battery (+) lug - What goes that cable go to?

 

Look at the battery (-) lug - What goes that cable go to?

 

What are you using for testing?

Digital multimeter?

Analog multimeter? - with a dial and needle

Test light?

 

Garry

post-120-0-48745400-1423559467.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the order:

Tan

Dk green - White side by side

Dj Blue - Red side by side

I'm using a test light. And the (+) cable is on the solenoid. And the (-) is connected to the hood stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the red and white are reversed. Let's double check it.

 

You should have a 5-wire connector that holds the 5 wires. Pull that off the switch so you can read the letters on the back of the switch that identify each terminal.

 

The red wire should go on the B terminal for battery

The white wire should go on the A terminal for accessories

 

Including a picture of the connector and the back of the switch. Have rotated the switch picture so the tan is at the top like we have written their description above.

 

Wiring diagram #1 Dark green (Rectifier) R on switch

Wiring diagram #2 White (Accessories) A on switch

Wiring diagram #3 Dark blue (Magneto) M on switch

Wiring diagram #4 Tan (Starter) S on switch

Wiring diagram #5 Red (Battery) B on switch

 

Let us know what you find. There is a way to release each terminal so they can be reinserted in the proper cavity - will explain that next time if necessary.

 

Garry

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-120-0-83016300-1423613377.jpg

post-120-0-69191700-1423613387.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new Napa switch isn't labeled. And I'm not sure how to attach my picture. But they're in the order of the diagram I drew so it's poss they're backwards. That could be why the previous owner had such a hard time with this thing

The new Napa switch isn't labeled. And I'm not sure how to attach my picture. But they're in the order of the diagram I drew so it's poss they're backwards. That could be why the previous owner had such a hard time with this thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disconnect the negative battery cable again and tuck it out of the way so it can't touch the post.

 

Switch the red and white wires.

 

Look at the front of the connector body where the switch terminals enter it. There is a groove in the plastic outside each metal terminal. You need to push something into that groove to collapse a tang on the metal terminal. The wire of a heavy duty paper clip or similar object works well. Push the tool in the front and pull the wire out the back. You may need to take a few stabs at it for the first one and the next will be easy. Take a knife blade and bend the tang back out a bit once the terminal is removed from the plastic body. The tang springs over a lump in the groove when reinserted and it's lock in again. Give it a tug to make sure.

 

Hook the negative battery cable back up.

 

My figures are crossed. Turn the key and start your engine.

 

Garry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I switched them and now the switch light is on and won't let it start. When all the other switches are in place and the seat switch did work. But now the lights on and if I push the button if makes no difference

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disconnect the orange wire from the seat switch and wrap a rag around the wire so the terminal will not touch any metal part of the chassis. That may not put the light out but will stop the seat switch from killing the ignition. We will deal with that switch later.

 

Make sure the pto lever is OFF, clutch pedal is down and try starting.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

Garry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. When I turn the key and try to start it the seat switch light comes on and nothing happens. But if I jump the solenoid with a screwdriver it starts. That's new. First time it's done that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. I had to jump the solenoid. The motor won't turn the key over

The motor won't turn over by turning the key. You have to jump the solenoid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's leave the ignition for now and try to get the starter motor to engage.

 

This drawing shows everything required to make that happen.

 

Red wire feeds power the the ignition switch.

 

Ignition switch in the START position feeds power to #1 - pto switch and #2 - oil level switch. .

 

#1 - Pto switch is closed with the pto OFF. This sends power to the clutch pedal switch. Clutch pedal down the pedal switch closes and sends power to the switching relay's contacts.

 

#2 - Oil level switch is closed if the oil level is OK. This feeds the magnetic coil in the switching relay which closes the relay contacts. (When this relay closes you should hear or feel it closing - a click or thump)

 

When #1 and #2 are both satisfied the switching relay sends power to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. Starter solenoid closes and starter motor should turn.

 

You may need help to do this unless you have an extra pair of arms and hands. It will be easier to start at the starter solenoid and work you way back to the ignition switch to see how far the power is getting.

Pto must be off - thats easy

Push clutch pedal down

Turn key to start

Check for power in the purple wire at the starter solenoid small terminal. None there-

Remove the switching relay and wires so you can probe the terminals with them still connected to the relay.

The light blue wire and dark blue wire should both have power in START. If they do have power the purple wire should have power provided the relay clicked.

The relay coil requires a ground to work so it may have a black ground wire - make sure it is connected to the chassis to complete the circuit. The pointed arrow in the diagram is a ground.

Remember to turn the key to START for each test.

 

Let us know what you find to this point. The reason for checking it from the starter back towards the ignition switch is the clutch pedal switch is hard to get to as it is down below the panel your shifters come out of. It is activated by the idler pulley arm that tensions the belt. With a light you can look down below the shifter and see the switch. This switch seldom fails.

 

If you click on the illustration it will get larger.

 

Garry

post-120-0-79106100-1423784891_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The orange wire at the solenoid has power with the key in the start position. I didn't check any of the others because there was power to the solenoid. So I need a new one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×