bmsgaffer

Need Pictures of Circuit Boards (Or dead circuit boards)

28 posts in this topic

Red Square:

 

I am working on developing a replacement for the circuit boards in the 300, 400, 500 series tractors.

 

To do that I need help from you guys in a couple ways.

 

I am trying to figure out how many styles there were and what they looked like (that's where the pictures come in)

 

I know what they DO from the schematics posted but I need to know physical layout for sizing and placement of LED's and connectors. For this I need help from anyone that has a dead or dismantled circuit board laying around. If you are willing to ship one off to me I will be giving you a discounted rate at buying an equivalent number of replacements.

 

 

My timeline is approximately 6 months depending on how much help I get.

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I will send some measurements for the 418 and 416 (appear to be identical).

I will also post how to modify non blinking oil low lights to make them blink on low oil detection.

If you are able to get a snapshot of the wiring connector layout for a 300 series PCB, that would help to advance the cause.

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ID: 3   Posted (edited)

You may also want to consider contacting Glenn Petit for a possible colaboration on a formed silicone 'gasket' or 'collar' to seal out liquid intrusion at the point the PCB mates with the molex connector.

Edited by Save Old Iron
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Thanks SOI!

 

I may have to have the company get a tractor or two... For research of course... :hide:

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ID: 5   Posted (edited)

400 series topology and dimensions

post-1689-0-23575300-1419050417_thumb.pn

post-1689-0-40021400-1419050437_thumb.gi

post-1689-0-64670500-1419050453_thumb.gi

post-1689-0-18677500-1419050476_thumb.gi

post-1689-0-70166000-1419072551_thumb.gi

Edited by Save Old Iron
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ID: 6   Posted (edited)

pcb thickness is standard 0.063"

 

0.156" edge connector spacing

Edited by Save Old Iron
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Thought I would see how many different boards were used

 

1986-1988 board #110999 replaced by #115207

Used on 200-Series models YT-12A, 211-5 and 211-6

Used on 300 and 400-Series Kohler single cylinder models

 

1986-1987 board #111000 replaced by #115207

Used on 400-Series Kohler twin cylinder models

 

19?? board #111377 replaced by #115207

Can't find the application

 

1988 board #111390 replaced by #115207

Used on Kawasaki powered 200-Series

 

1989-1990 board #115207

Used on 300-Series Kohler single cylinder models

 

1989-1990 board #114825 replaced by #115207

Used on Kohler single cylinder and twin cylinder 300-Series export models

1991-1997 board #114825 replaced by #115207

Used on 300-Series Kohler single cylinder models

 

Garry

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looks like 115207 { LED version ?} replaced all previous numbers / in all models

 

which to me means they must all be interchangeable and connectors wired to be compatible ??

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Thats sure what it looks like to me.

 

Makes this much easier!

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So, did you create a replacement board? Mine fried on my 1990 416-8 about 2 weeks ago. I'm looking for a repair or replacement.

 

Thanks,

Sam

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i never did get around to making a replacement, the demand just never seemed to be there and the tractor I needed it for I sold. One person sent me their old board and I will dig it out tonight and take a look at it. 

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Thanks, is it a working board you have?

 

I believe I may have this one: 115207

 

The shop that has it is closed today, I'm going to check with them tomorrow. I have another member with a possible board and one other lead. 

 

Thanks,

Sam

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ID: 13   Posted (edited)

So, I'm curious. Are you looking to make a totally new board or just repair the original?  The IC's are easy to source and replace as are the resistors,caps and diodes. I cannot see from the pictures what the transistor numbers are however.  Could you post a view of the transistors so I can see the numbers as well as a shot of the back of the board? Its looking like 115207 replaces everything?  Anyone have a schematic of this board or can give me a link to the schematic in the manual?  Thinking about dusting off the autocad program. I have bags of clear LED'S. If there is enough interest to warrant doing a program I would need a minimum of say 25 boards made to recover the board setup costs at a circuit board shop. The last time I had a circuit board run it cost $300 for the setup and tooling (one time costs). One might be able to get something like this done across the pond cheaper.

Edited by 6bg6ga

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My plan was to recreate the board, thus we would be able to buy new ones.

 

The hang up is that I will have to either reverse engineer the board (i and a couple others have that mostly done) or create the same functionality a different way but better than WH had at the time. 

 

Then the other issue is to devote time to doing it...

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Ok, from post #5 it looks like the parts count for the older boards is as follows:

1 - MC1455 timer

1 - SNNJ54LS86AJ  Quadrule 2 input Exclusive -OR- Gate

4 - transistors that I don't have PN's for

2 - capacitors  value unknown

12 - Diodes  number unknown

12 - resistors values unknown  because of black & white picture lack of clarity

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ID: 17   Posted (edited)

Looks like PN takes the place of 114825,111390,and 111377.   I tried to find  picture of the 115207 board to post.

 

I'd like to help with this project if you still have interest in it. I'm thinking like this....re-do the 115207 board, do away with the edge connector and instead the wires are silver soldered to the board and the board assembly has the plug in connector to mate with the tractors connector.  Like I mentioned earlier I don't know the current board costs for engineering and setup. The last board I did was a complicated two sided audio amplifier board with crossover network on the board. It cost a $300 tooling/setup/engineering charge and I did the CAD program. The boards were 14"x4.5" and cost $30.00 ea bare. I will enclose a picture of my boards note it was a last run and they forgot the silk screen markings.

P4200002.JPG

P4200004.JPG

P4200003.JPG

Edited by 6bg6ga

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. Every hole is a charge as well as the edge connector if used. The board I made used plated thru holes making for a better contact

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9 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

So, I'm curious. Are you looking to make a totally new board or just repair the original?

Either, but for now I found one on eBay for $59.99

 

I still might be interested in participating in a group buy if you want to make new ones. I now have a 1990 416-8 and a 1995 520-H

 

When I get the eBay board, I'll take close up pictures, and when I get the current board out, I'll take pictures.

 

Thanks,

Sam

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I work at a contract manufacturer as an engineer, so I have no doubt I can keep the price reasonable assuming we can get enough interest.

 

7 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

Looks like PN takes the place of 114825,111390,and 111377.   I tried to find  picture of the 115207 board to post.

 

I'd like to help with this project if you still have interest in it. I'm thinking like this....re-do the 115207 board, do away with the edge connector and instead the wires are silver soldered to the board and the board assembly has the plug in connector to mate with the tractors connector.

 

I have a picture of the latest board somewhere here. With the tractor connector being designed as a board edge connector, there really isn't much else you can get to connect to it. I was planning on adding a more standard connector in addition to the card-edge to allow someone to cut off the old card-edge and wire in something more traditional, but that would add cost. 

 

The card edge connector wont add to the cost of the board as for this application we don't have to have electroplated gold. Since this will be a one time deal, tinned strips will function just fine especially with a backup connector. 

 

The trick will also be picking a good coating. Ideally these could be epoxied as the conformal coating just doesn't have enough durability for this environment. But again, cost. 

 

Another point would be that I would probably make this board entirely surface-mount components. Assembly of SMT parts cost a small fraction of what thru-hole components would (I would have this professionally assembled, on our lines). The joints can be bit less durable than the thru-hole components are, but the cost and time savings would be too large to pass up.  This would further necessitate a coating, to help stabilize the components. 

 

Here is one of my latest projects I designed. 4 layer boards, one a display/cpu unit with 4.3" capacitive touch display and one 30A DC motor controller. 

2017-04-20 14.44.16.jpg

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Mighty fine work. Mine is old school which is the way I still think. I always try to design something so the end user that has some interest and experience can work on it. I've never seen any of these tractors that use these boards as of yet. Still wishing I could find one. I'm still stuck with the old 616Z Zero Turn mower. Sounds like your ready to take the ball and run with it so I might as well back out and let you go with it. My experience to be honest isn't in surface mount technology. I repair anything not surface mount  and at my age won't buy the equipment necessary to work on it.

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:36 AM, bmsgaffer said:

i never did get around to making a replacement, the demand just never seemed to be there and the tractor I needed it for I sold. One person sent me their old board and I will dig it out tonight and take a look at it. 

 

If you would take some pictures and post them I could look up the parts and possibly put together a repair kit to repair these boards. Or, if someone wanted to take a chance and send me their board to look at and replace the defective parts I'm willing to try. I don't have a tractor in which to put the board in circuit to test the results but based on the pictures its a simple board to troubleshoot and repair.

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15 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

Mighty fine work. Mine is old school which is the way I still think. I always try to design something so the end user that has some interest and experience can work on it. I've never seen any of these tractors that use these boards as of yet. Still wishing I could find one. I'm still stuck with the old 616Z Zero Turn mower. Sounds like your ready to take the ball and run with it so I might as well back out and let you go with it. My experience to be honest isn't in surface mount technology. I repair anything not surface mount  and at my age won't buy the equipment necessary to work on it.

 

Thank you, but I by no means wanted to run you off! There is no telling when I will be able to get to this, but we will need to judge the interest level. Curious to know how many people would want new boards. 

 

I mostly work in SMT just because it is faster and most projects now-days just need to keep getting smaller and smaller. 

 

I know @Save Old Iron had gotten about 80% done with the schematic when he last messaged me, but he hasn't been on here in over a year. I will post here what he sent me, just so that we have all the information as public. He has a good thread on repairing these boards somewhere around here...

 

Here is his repair thread:

 

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ID: 24   Posted (edited)

No, you didn't run me off. I just know when to back out. I'm not into the surface mount stuff and I'm not knocking it by any means. I repair all types of audio gear and to be blunt it dips into my pocket when for example a customer has a Crown Power Amp and I won't touch it because its all surface mount technology and given that I'm one year from Medicare/retirement/social security I cannot afford to buy the additional equipment to work on it. I'm not knocking the surface mount stuff but I'm wondering how its going to hold up with vibration. There is something to be said for the 'Older" technology when it comes to being actually able to repair.

 

Edited by 6bg6ga

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Found this thread. Someone's already repairing the board.

This is from the original thread. Wonder if the moderator would consider merging the two threads.

 It shows the outdated logic chips operation. Note the newest board did away with the gate ic and uses diodes to steer instead. personal opinion here. If it were me I would do away with the 555 timers operation which is to flash the idiot light and replace it with a piezo element instead. 

lites4.gif

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