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entropy

engine quits 520hc

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entropy

Looking for some advice from the wheel horse gurus. So this summer I had problems with the 520hc and went through all sorts of hoops(and $$$$$) to get her running again, and must mention the  help offered on these boards as well. Cleaned the carb, replaced the coil, cleaned all the electrical connections(9 pin and others), rewired the fuses and replaced them, pulled flywheel and cleaned etc etc etc. the thread is here.

 

So on to the current issue. My 520 starts and runs. once running I can take off choke and go full throttle. I can engage the deck and roll her up and down driveway for a few minutes. Then the engine just dies and I am unable to restart. I have to wait quite a few hours before she will start again and then the same sequence of events happens again.

 

Last time I went through this I noticed that the vacuum gauge would go down to zero as the engine died. 

 

I am going to try starting again my next day off and time how long she runs and keep my eye on vac gauge so I have more specific info. Based on the info above does anyone have any thoughts about what could be the issue? 

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gwest_ca

My guess is your fuel tank has years of sediment or larger pieces in it that gets sucked up against the screen on the fuel valve stopping the flow of fuel. Let it sit the junk floats away and fuel will flow again. If you have another low fuel can remove a fuel hose and see if gravity will completely drain the tank with a constant flow. It should. If it slows loosen the cap to see if that improves flow.

 

Garry

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WH nut

Don't pay any attention to the vacuum gauge. As it dies it will go down, just like when you go wide open throttle. Untill the engine catches up vacuum will be low

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ericj

down load the onan service manual from on here and go through it step by step. to me it sounds like a possible ignition module. when it stops and don't run check for power to the coil and then check for 12 volts coming from the - side of the coil it should drop down to 1.5 volts and go back to 12 volts the service manual will explain in detail how to do this let us know how you make out on it good luck 

 

 

 

 

 

eric j

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546cowboy

This problem has been beat to death on here. There is a pinned answer to this question at the top of the page. There is a diagnosis in the manual to follow and they need to be done when the problem occurs and not after it sits awhile.

 

Well actually I just looked and that pinned link is no longer on this section.

 

When it dies and won't restart

 

1. Turn the key on and check for voltage at the ignition coil red wire.  If you have none then run a jumper wire to that terminal from the battery and try to start it. If it does not crank make sure you have the PTO lever disengaged and the battery charged.

 

2. Next check to see that you have spark at both spark plugs while cranking the engine. If you have spark and it still does not start go to 3..

 

3. Check to see that you are getting fuel to the carb. If not you need to start at the tank and find out why.

 

There is a detailed method for this that must be followed in the Demystification Guide in the manuals section. Follow every step and don't skip any or it will drive a sane man crazy.

Edited by 546cowboy
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theWolf319

sounds very simular to what happened to my neighbor a couple years ago while blowing snow

would make one pass down driveway and engine would stop .... waited 5 minutes then could make another pass

problem was ..... vent in gas cap was plugged  and engine could only draw so much fuel before vacuum in tank was to high to draw anymore

quick fix with an airblower

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Theroundhousernr

 

Here is the link mentioned. It is in the electrical section. I to believe this sounds like a fuel issue. Try running with the gas cap loose. Another quick easy check would be to dump a tiny but of fuel down the carb and crank it over right after it stops running. If it starts , it will be fuel related.

 

  If it does not start, refer to the link above for electrical testing.

 

   Kyle

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skrusins

I second gas cap had the same problem it was vapor lock 

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entropy

Thanks for the feedback guys. Sorry I have not responded, but cold weather made me shelve the wheelhorse trouble shooting till this week. And was picking up lots of OT at work, winter is my busy season with work <------- a beautiful thing as summer it dies down and they ask me to stay home!

With beautiful weather this Monday I decided to dig into the 520. Had a cold 6pack of "raging *****" at my disposal and ample warmth/sunshine. So I bought a new fuel filter and installed, blew out all the gas lines when I drained gas tank, pulled apart fuel pump and cleaned(very gently as it is thin material in there) pulled off top of carb and cleaned all assorted parts and passages and buttoned it all up. Checked the gas cap and decided to leave it a bit loose and loaded fresh gas in tank.

Hooked up to battery charger and she started up, adjusted the carb screw till I had a nice smooth idle. Sounded great, running great for about 5 minutes(put her under load and ran around driveway) and then died. Stuck a screw driver in spark plug wire put it near engine and turned her over........ No spark.

Here is what perplexes me, I had electrical issues previously and with the help of members on this board, the demystification guide and trial&error fiddling I was able to get her running last year. The post is on the boards somewhere as "no spark 520hc". I replaced many parts, cleaned all the electrical connections and applied electrical connection grease to keep it clean, replaced spark plugs&wires, coil and I believe the ignition module(sits behind flywheel), replaced all fuses and so on and so forth.

As you can tell I am quite fond of this tractor and am willing to spend time and effort to extend its life as long as possible

I am going to DL the demystification guide again and go through the steps as I remember it being VERY useful in getting her running last year. That being said, any thoughts as to my problem?

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entropy

So frustration has set in and thoughts of selling this hunk of metal have creeped in to my mind. Checked the ignition module and it is ok, fluctuates from 12.6 volts to 1.5 volts as I spin the crank with plugs pulled.Ran it again and same thing happens, runs for 5 mins then dies. Pulled plugs and turned over no spark. Hot wired the coil to battery and still no spark........ Anyone want a less then 800 hr 520hc for a decent price?

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Desko

Haha yea where are you at in PA? Besides that have you changed the plugs? If you have a hot wire to the coil it should have spark unless the IGN module is bad or the magnetic rotor is bad, also have you changed plug wires. Also make sure there are no wires caught up in the steering column grounding out.

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ericj

recheck the ignition module when the tractor cuts out, when you have no spark they tend to fail when warm. if you do want to get rid of it or trade for another 520 pm me. good luck

 

 

 

 

 

eric j

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entropy

Soooooo, new update and looking for feedback. I overrode the cutting blade engagement kill switch by side of battery. The tractor ran for a good 10 minutes under load where as before it would just run for ~2 minutes before cutting out. It also had a huge backfire though carb when it died, like a gunshot. Also prior to kill switch override I would have to wait a few hrs before I could restart. I was able to restart it though.

With kill switch override it would start back up......BUT, it would choke out under full throttle and have a HUGE backfire. I could idle down to lowest throttle setting and it would keep running. I repeated this multiple times with the same results. Once warmed up and running for a bit it would start to choke down and only by reducing throttle to idle would it stay running. Any attempt to throttle up( once at operating temp) would be met with a choke out and backfire.

Could this be a burnt/bad valve? At least that was the 1st thing that popped into my head when it kept on happening. Any thoughts?

Thought process is this, under high RPM a bad valve is unable to perform its intended function, but under idle and reduced tress perhaps it still could?

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entropy

So now to finally update my adventures with the 520hc. Thought I would add some pics of the beast for members to see.

I lost faith. I could not get her to run for more then 5 minutes. I was not going back to pushing a mower so I started my search. At first any ride on would do, but as I read and researched I realized it would have to be a John Deere or a cub cadet...... As any others are basically scrap after a few years.

So I began my hunt. I looked far and wide but every time a deal came up that I thought was good...........BAM! Gone before I could even see it. Finally I managed to find a mower that was still available. So I jumped in the truck and headed over. Found what I wanted and ponied up the coin........

9year old John Deere with 83.9 hours. Sold!

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entropy

So I got the new mower home and thought to myself "self, lets toy around with the horse and see if we can figure it out".

So I re-downloaded the demystification guide and started going thru the tests. As I pulled my box of receipts/notes/old parts I noticed a new in box ignition module. I had forgotten that I had ohm metered the old and new ignition modules and found no variance and left the new in box and reinstalled the original.

So I started the horse and let it run till it died. I then followed the testing guidelines and found the ignition module was not fluctuating voltage from 12.5 to 1.5 as I turned the crank by hand. Good lord, had I just figured out the problem after dropping decent coin on a new( to me)mower?!

So I buttoned everything back up and started her up.......... Erich you called it. I tested the ignition module when motor was cold. Took a few minutes of running to fail.

Yup, she ran and kept on running! No quit after warming up.

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Edited by entropy
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entropy

So now I am painting and tweaking. Pulled exhaust and carb to adjust valves and they needed it. Checking all linkage and wiring as I have all the panels off. Now that I am fixing the WH up I am not so sure about selling it.

So I asked the wife what she thought.

Her response was powerful........ She said when she sees the JD it looks like the typical suburban white guy mower(wife of 30 years is Latina), but when she sees the WH that is the man she married. That is her Papi who keeps the old stuff going and working while others junk it and buy new. Now she did give her final call saying it made more sense to keep the JD. I am no longer so sure, as sometimes an objects value is undefinable.

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post-10325-0-02434400-1430560366_thumb.j

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cleat

If you think that you will regret selling this unit then don't do it.

The amount you will sell it for won't make a huge difference in your life I would think but losing it might.

 

just my 2c

 

Cleat

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entropy

Here is a video of the daughter driving it after putting intake and exhaust back on. I think it sounds pretty good, smooth, no searching throttle. Has almost 800hrs, but to me it sounds fresh...... Like the motor has much more life left in it.

trim.7D7E1825-9716-40FA-8426-0B843115ED52.MOV

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Theroundhousernr

I am not down playing your john deere but , that is a lowes model john deere being no better than a craftsman. The automatic tuff torque transmission you will be lucky to see 400hr before it gives up the ghost. And if you have hills, or plan to pull a wagon or plow, forget about it. It is just green paint and does not carry and john deere reputation.

 

 That onan if taken care of , you could see a thousand more hours use and same for the rear. I would keep that 520hc for sure! Oh and buy matts hydro foot pedal and it will drive just like the john deere too.

 

   Good luck on your endevor. Kyle

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ericj

good to see an update, keep the deere and sell me the horse. :ychain:  :ROTF:  i have had several of the ignition modules go bad and at first they only fail when warm, later they sometimes fail completely and are easier to diagnose glade to see you got it figures out. i don't think you really need my opinion on what to do, KEEP IT 

 

 

 

 

eric j

Edited by ericj
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entropy

No offense taken on the JD. The WH 520hc is ridiculously overbuilt. As I tore it down the quality is so apparent. The frame rails on the WH are at least twice as thick steel as the JD. Here is my apt comparison.... Wheelhorse forged John Deere stamped.

My only worry with the WH is availability of parts and cost in case it fails.

If I can get my money back on the JD I can act like it never happened, and hopefully the WH will forgive my transgression!

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entropy

Made my decision and have no regrets. Sold the John Deere via craigslist (what a PITA) got my money back plus a pinch extra. At 800hrs the Horse is 10times what the JD could ever hope to be brand new. My neighbor(30yr heavy truck mechanic) even said it sounded pretty damn stout as I was mowing, quite the compliment from him. I sanded down the rust and rattle canned it. You know the saying 10 footer...... Well my job is a 20 footer if you are blind in one eye and have cataracts in the other😄. Still it is a working tractor and my goal was only to spruce it up and use it for its intended purpose. Here are a couple of pics...... A couple of questions too. My tranny fluid and filter was changed 2 years ago and still looks really clean. How often is it supposed to be changed? And I believe I used 10w-30 motor oil last time, is that correct to use? And how many hours can you expect out of these onans if oil is changed each year and cleaned after each mow so cooling fins are clean. Not sure how well it was maintained prior to me, but I inherited it with 710hrs on it and prior owner used it for his own lawn.

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BenBen's416

Great looking mower & you are not alone in your endeavor. While I didn't make the purchase, I too had debated on the JD & the "typical suburban white guy mower"  :laughing-rofl: ... and now after I purchased my 1st WH 2wks ago (416h '95 model), I'm holding out hope I can make it through the year before I tear into her this winter with my son. 

 

"keeps the old stuff going and working while others junk it and buy new" - this nearly brought a tear to my eye. I prefer to think of us as frugal and there's "no use in throwing a whole life {horse} away just because it's been banged up a bit."

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PeacemakerJack
On May 12, 2015 at 11:30 AM, entropy said:

Made my decision and have no regrets. Sold the John Deere via craigslist (what a PITA) got my money back plus a pinch extra. At 800hrs the Horse is 10times what the JD could ever hope to be brand new. My neighbor(30yr heavy truck mechanic) even said it sounded pretty damn stout as I was mowing, quite the compliment from him...Still it is a working tractor and my goal was only to spruce it up and use it for its intended purpose. Here are a couple of pics

image.jpg

 

 

How's the HC working out for you a year later?

 

This is a familiar story to some of us on here.  My first tractor, long before I was into the GT hobby, was a 1980 224 Case.  I was a young man and newly married with an acre of lawn to mow.  It was a heavy duty tractor built quite tough.  I inherited it from a family member and used it for a couple of years to cut my lawn and blow the snow from the drive. As with any typical 24 year old machine, it had some typical glitches to deal with. One day I got upset after a tie rod let loose, I told my wife that I was gonna buy a new mower. I spent $2000 on a box store Cub Cadet.  Five years later it was already showing wear and had some glitches of its own. Thankfully I had learned by this time the value of a stout machine just like you did.  I never sold my Case and now it is my daughters tractor.  I now have owned and currently own multiple heavy duty old school garden tractors (Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Case, etc) I wouldn't give one up for a throw away tractor. I, like you, learned a valuable lesson.  These REAL garden tractors are worth maintaining, repairing, rebuilding, restoring, keeping, and using because they were built for the LONG HAUL!

 

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entropy

My WH520HC is still cutting and running like a champ(knock on wood). I put about 1.25hrs on it weekly, use my leaf blower to cool it down after every mow, and change my engine oil each season tranny every 2nd season. It is no show tractor as my rattle can restoration has a quite a few flaws but it was always meant to be a worker not a showpiece. Hopefully I will get many more years of use if I maintain it well. This summer I got a snow thrower for it and spruced it up. Can't wait to try it out with first snow. My neighbor, who is a heavy machine mechanic, finally fessed up and admitted the old WH is a pretty sweet machine compared to his box store JD. All metal parts and heavy duty mechanicals are a rarity these days.

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