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Starter issues

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Is it possible to fry a starter motor from over cranking?

I've been messing with the carb and removing the float bowl, so having to pump fuel back to fill the float bowl every time. At first I thought I had just run the battery down but its full now and it's as if there isn't enough to spin the motor.

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Absolutely YES.

 

Overheating the starter can melt insulation off the internal wiring of the armature.

 

Brushes could be sticking in their holders when overheated.

 

Let the starter cool down and try again. If the body of the starter gets hot after a few 15 second cranking sessions, possibly the starter is comprised.

 

Check your battery voltage while cranking - it should drop into the 10 - 11 volt range. Lower than 10 volts, the battery maybe sulfated and need replacement. If it stays too high, the starter is drawing insufficient current ( bad brushes or dirty commutator) leading to poor starting performance.

Edited by Save Old Iron
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The amperes meter barely registered a drop and will not turn over for more than 2 seconds.

I think I killed it :-(

whats the chances of repair, or am I looking at a new starter?

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The amp meter will NOT show the draw from the battery due to the starter. The starter can draw 35- 50 amps which far exceeds the scale of the ammeter. 

 

Download the Kohler engine manual from the MANUALS section of this forum. There are additional checks that can be made internal to the starter if you are convinced it may be fried. Brushes can be replaced, armature commutators can be faced or cleaned, worn bearings can be replaced.

 

Poor battery condition, poor battery cables and corroded cable connections can make you believe you have a bad starter.Make sure you can turn over the crankshaft of the engine by hand to eliminate engine mechanical issues.

 

Measure that battery voltage while you are cranking the engine.

Edited by Save Old Iron
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It was working fine before I started cranking it and flattened the battery, I'll take off and have look inside.

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If you need a new starter go to an auto parts store. I got one from KOI for about $100 which was a lot better than $325 from the dealer.

Cub Cadet 1200

Cub Cadet 109

Cub Cadet 149

Cub Cadet "O"

Cub Cadet SO76

Plenty of attatchments to put them to work. Currently looking for an RJ35, if you know where I can find one let me know.

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Sweet! $66, is a good deal.

Cub Cadet 1200

Cub Cadet 109

Cub Cadet 149

Cub Cadet "O"

Cub Cadet SO76

Plenty of attatchments to put them to work. Currently looking for an RJ35, if you know where I can find one let me know.

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I wish I lived in the States  :UK: Hmmm. No flag for us Welsh folk?

 

Anyway, I may not need a starter just yet. 

I was browsing the Tube for starter repair, and I came across a guy who basically said if the starter moves at all, then its more than likely going to be something before the starter thats at fault.

Well my starter does attempt to engaged but then does nothing. So I started at the begining, have I got power? Yes I did, fully charged. So I took my battery to work to get it tested, and it turns out although it shows full beans, it actually only has about 8 volts on demand.

So tonight if I get a chance I'm going to put the battery back on and jump it from my car, and see what happens. If she runs then a battery is cheaper than a starter or possible rebuild. 

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These Starter Motors are not Continually Rated, so as mentioned, download a copy of the Manual which states - only run the starter for 10 seconds and then allow 1 minute for heat dissipation before attempting to repeat.

 

You will gain knowledge of what is inside of one of these and may be able to breath life back onto the motor by reading this good Thread by Steve- 

 

 

I've also imported an Aftermarket Starter into the UK and am happy with it. The price with Import duty was not cheap. Make a note of how many teeth you have on your Starter Bendix gear if you look to replace (10 or 13?). 

 

Buying second hand in UK is risky, as you may get another burned out one, or not know if it has been mistreated in it's life, so it helps to be able to service them yourself if you can. 

The one I refurbished is running perfectly on my 72 Raider 12, while I service the original one from it.

Regards.

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These Starter Motors are not Continually Rated, so as mentioned, download a copy of the Manual which states - only run the starter for 10 seconds and then allow 1 minute for heat dissipation before attempting to repeat.

 

 

 

Doh! Two things i didn't do. I will have to spend some time reading the manual instead of all the interesting topics on here  :grin:

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Hey all, I've still got a starter problem, I tried a jumper from my car today and I'm still getting nothing. I just removed the starter and found that the nut on the end of the starter was about to come off bar two or three threads. Now I know this is a daft question but it's not supposed to be like that is it?

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I just opened up the starter and apart from the nut being loose, it all looked ok to me?

 

What should I be looking for, there is no damage that I can see. What bit should I be cleaning and with what?

 

The bushes? those four little things in the back on springs, they have some  light grooves, and the bit they rest against looks ok?

 

i have put it back together now but if you need pictures I'll strip it again if need be.

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Latest up date, the starter works when tested off the tractor, could the starter switch/solonoid be at fault?

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If the starter works off the tractor, take your jumpers from the car , place the positive on the starter post and then ground the negative and see if she spins over. If it does then do some back tracking with a volt meter

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If the starter works off the tractor, take your jumpers from the car , place the positive on the starter post and then ground the negative and see if she spins over. If it does then do some back tracking with a volt meter

 

Do you mean put the starter back on and by pass the solenoid/switch?

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Ok so now I'm all confused again  :confusion-confused:  

I took my starter to work and got the electrical guy to test it. He says it works fine. I bring it home and re fit, and connect up my dodgy battery so I can try to by pass the solenoid with the jump lead. 

Of course curiosity gets the better of me and I just turn the key to see if its the same as it was when I removed it. Of course it was right?

Wrong!!  it worked, it turned over nice an quick. Now I didn't continue turning over just incase I messed it up again.

 

So what's going on here, could it have been a dodgy connection, could there be a bad spot in the starter which I moved when I took it apart, or just plain old gremlins?

 

I'm going back out there tomorrow to try to get it to run, ( no time tonight I had to do the hubs with a borrowed puller) whats the chances of it working? Slim me thinks, but you gotta hope.

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Make sure all your connections and grounds are clean, you stumbled on to the problem when you removed the starter

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sometimes when you have low battery voltage the starter gear can become stuck causing the motor seizes up. i started replying before rereading the whole post so not sure if this could be your problem or not but i have seen this happen and when it does all you have to do is spin the motor backwards by hand a 1/4 turn or so and it will free up.

   it could have been a loose connection also best bet is to run it and see what happens if it does ti again you'll know better what to look for and to check to finally fix it for good. good luck

 

 

 

 

eric j 

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ARRRRGGggh!

 

Battery Check, Fuel check, spark che.. What? Where has my spark gone :banghead:

 

So I have found that the solenoid seems to be U/S so by passing it the motor spins sweet as, and I'm getting plenty of fuel as the plug is now wet.

 

I have checked all my connections from the battery to the coil, I had a spark b4 all the starter problems????

 

I don't have a multi meter so whats my best option looking for the whereabouts of my spark?

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You will need at least a test light. Make sure you have power on the + side of the coil. If you do, move to the Neg side and it should flash as the points open and close.  If that's good make sure the points are gap at .018-.020 This of course if its a k series.

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Get or make a jumper wire of about 4 ft. in length. Use 12 gage wire and alligator clips. You will use this many times in working on these tractors.

 

Place one end on the positive side of the battery and the other on the positive side of the coil. Now try starting the engine. Let is know if it starts.

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km3h I'll try to sort it in the next couple of days, different time zone and Sunday hours seperate us.

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km3h I'll try to sort it in the next couple of days, different time zone and Sunday hours seperate us.

 

Good. By doing what I suggest, you will eliminate any problems with the electrical system such as bad switches or other shorts.

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