Replacing a PTO switch on a Wheel Horse 310-8 tractor?

[Vincez 1]

I am fairly confident that the PTO switch is the cause for not starting. I have an issue as to how I get the switch out for replacement? Tried to bend the fingers and clean item with steel wool -- worked one time, now nothing! Can one bypass the PTO safety switch, if so, please provide detailed instructions

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

Do you have the model number of your tractor? The wiring changed a few times on that model and it would be nice to look at the correct wiring diagram to see what your options are. Failing that post all the numbers off the engine including the serial number.

 

Garry

[jackhammer 544]

It might not be a total electrical issue. The pto lever inside the tower has a cam ,,  as it pushes down and is pulled up needs to come in contact with the "finger" contacts as it is engaged or disengaged.  You might have too much play from the outside going into there where contact is not  being made.  On my 312 I replaced the plastic nylon bushings on the pto making for a tight non sloppy engagement.

 

The pto hole as it goes thru the tower sometimes gets egg shaped ,  worn from use turning on and off.  You will need to try and start the engine  -  and at the same time put pressure on the pto lever up down ,,,   or in an out,,,  or  forward and back -   but only with the pto lever upward ( disengaged ) to  see if this is the case.

 

 

Again - -  push in the clutch ,   grab the pto lever (in the up  (disengaged) )  position with your right hand,    turn on and "hold it on"  the ignition with your left hand ,  try moving the pto around trying to make  contact by doing the above mentioned  movements.

 

 

If it starts its a simple fix.  if not  then micro switches or electrical need checked  >        Its your tractor but I would totally suggest don' t make the bypass .

 

As members have requested before   if you can,,,  post pictures of the problem area   and list the model number

Edited November 24, 2014 by jackhammer

[Vincez 1]

Thank you all for your response... I have a 1989 Model 310-8.  Upon closer inspection, the fingers seem to have loosened up and become sloppy.  Mine has (2) metal fingers and they are loose going into the switch itself.  I am thinking about what I can use to insert at the connection point to tighten up the fingars at the source so the allignment is better.

[jackhammer 544]

Vincez mine also had a very mushy soft feel to them , I took a picture or wiring colors and on top and bottom switch , think there were orange and purple but cant remember for sure and removed the switches. Using 2 pair of needle nose  pliers I rebent them to make solid contact (with that cam that engages them)  even thought they were very soft. That was 3 years ago and I replaced the little white plastic bushings so I wouldn't have to do it again ..  Good luck and have patience its a little tight space in there and gets frustrating.

 

Moving the battery away which you probably have already done made it much easier for my fat fingers. I thing there were 2 little nuts I had to remove to get the switches free to rebend . If yours are really bad you might just buy some used ones from  Kelly , a member here

 

 http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/93-kellys-tractor-salvage/   he has a nice stock of many parts.

 

don't short out your rectifier  or solenoid while in there.. disconnect battery

Edited November 24, 2014 by jackhammer

[Vincez 1]

I received the replacement PTO safety switch and it appears very different from the original one?  The original has (2) fingers to it and several electrical plug connections, whereas, the new one has just one finger and less plug connections, SO... I am not sure how the change-out will go?  I am thinking I was suppose to purchase (2) switches???

 

I bought Part # 111332 at RCPW for my Wheel Horse 310/8 - 1989 model

 

Can anyone please provide some advice...

[jackhammer 544]

Vincez

 

Yes you were if you needed both.    I pulled up your model number on partstree.com   

 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=toro_consumer&mn=21-10K806%2C+310-8+Garden+Tractor%2C+1989&dn=810607R1-07R10080-00038

 

and it appears to show 2 two switches contacted by a single pto lever, which is pretty standard for the 89 and 90 that I have . I don't know if both of your old switches are trash or not. Might get you by with one of the old ones just to see if it will run. 

 

Check your wiring colors and put back as they were

 

Also on the RS Main page  upper left side are manuals - once inside are break downs  for various components, according to year and model number.

 

This is a great forum to be a member of

 

 

 

 

 

[Vincez 1]

Is there some way for me to determine which of the (2) switches is bad?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

If you can make out the wire colors the dark blue and orange go on one switch and control the ignition. What ever you do do not allow any battery power into either of those wires. It will burn up the ignition. These wires simply ground the ignition to turn it off.

 

The tan and/or light blue and a purple control the starter circuit on the other switch.

 

Garry

[Vincez 1]

I've replaced the (2) PTO switches, thought I was done, but you all know how these things go...  Tried to start the tractor - - nothing!  Possibly, there were multiple problems?  What's strange is that on two separate occasions over the course of this email thread I did get the tractor to start, then, once I turned it off - - nothing.  I will look at the plastic bushings that JackHammer suggested above, but even if I hold my finger on the PTO fingers to make sure the contact is solid, I get nothing?  Please help, yet again...

[jackhammer 544]

Vincez,  This might help ,

 

sit in seat as if redi to start,

make sure pto is in off (upward) position

depress clutch

this is a 2 step process now

hold the starter key on with your left hand -  and at the same time grab the pto lever and try to rotate it in a circle  to find out if it will make contact.

 

Push it in hard and and try make a contact with the switches in a slow circular motion. Or push it in hard as you try to start try different scenarios, you'll get it !!

 

Vincez you have said prior "on two separate occasions over the course of this email thread I did get the tractor to start, then, once I turned it off - - nothing"

 

The drawing isn't the best

Center hole is factory..  upper and lower examples is what happens to the center after years of use. The holes might not be round but more oval shape not allowing you to make proper contact. They get wallowed out .

Try to move the pto in a circular motion or up and down just to see if you make contact with your new switches but hold your key on with the other hand. You'll here it click to start if this is your problem.  If not  vincez,  then as others have said you will have to check wiring.

 

Good luck

Rick

Edited December 14, 2014 by jackhammer

[Vincez 1]

I've installed (2) new PTO safety switches. Unfortunately ALL wiring diagrams that I've seen for my 1989 310-8 tractor isn't clear as to the connection points for each wire, particularly for the (2) tan wires, so I don't know where they are suppose to connect to?  I thought I took them off the old switches and replaced them one for one, but it wasn't working.  I've since changed them around and connected the battery, manually held the switch fingers down, and the tractor DID turned-over. However, when I reattached the switch assembly into the tractor it would not start!  So now I am thinking that there is  a short in one of the PTO connection wires??

 

At this point I am confounded by this???  The Test Light works and the Headlights work, so power from the battery is not the issue.  Any thoughts about how to test the wires that connect to the PTO switches, would be appreciated....

Edited December 31, 2014 by Vincez

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

Sometimes I have to pull the pto lever back to make the starter switch work and it has not changed in years so I don't think it is a fast wearing problem.

 

Have you seen the detailed wiring diagrams? Each circuit has it's own diagram making it easier to understand.

 

Garry

[Vincez 1]

I've installed (2) new PTO safety switches. Unfortunately ALL wiring diagrams that I've seen for my 1989 310-8 tractor isn't clear as to the connection points for each wire, particularly for the (2) tan wires, so I don't know where they are suppose to connect to?  I thought I took them off the old switches and replaced them one for one, but it wasn't working.  I've since changed them around and connected the battery, manually held the switch fingers down, and the tractor DID turned-over. However, when I reattached the switch assembly into the tractor it would not start!  So now I am thinking that there is  a short in one of the PTO connection wires??

 

At this point I am confounded by this???  The Test Light works and the Headlights work, so power from the battery is not the issue.  Any thoughts about how to test the wires that connect to the PTO switches, would be appreciated....

[Vincez 1]

Please look at my last (2) posts... I can't figure this out, perhaps I damaged or burnt out something else - - I don't think so, but no matter how I connect the PTO wires (Blue & Orange to one switch) and what appear to be (2) tan wires to the other.  Does it matter which switch these attach to> top or bottom once installed?  I've tried both ways...

 

Connections as follows: The Blue wire w/plastic harness connects to the NC2 terminal, the  NO3 terminal then is covered by plastic from the harness, and the Orange wire connects to the COM connection on the side of the switch.

 

What confuses me is the connections to the other switch, especially since I'm not certain of the color of the (2) wires:  I assumed, just like above that one connected to the NC2 terminal, the NO3 was left empty, and the other connects to COM.  However, the one time the engine turned-over, I had on on the NO3 and one on COM - - MANUALLY holding the fingers down.  Unfortunately, once I screwed the switch assembly into the tractor, again NOTHING.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

I take it both switches are identical.

I take it that the pto lever pushes the buttons on both switches when the pto is in the OFF position

 

The starter circuit from the wiring diagram

"N.O. Contacts closed when pto disengaged"

Rewritten - "The normally open contacts are closed with the pto OFF."

The Com terminal is the where the tan wire goes from the ignition switch S terminal.

 

The ignition circuit from the wiring diagram

"N.C. Contacts open when pto disengaged"

Rewritten - "The normally closed contacts are opened with the pto OFF."

The Com terminal is the where the dark blue wire goes from the M terminal on the ignition switch for magneto ignition

 

Com means that terminal is common to the NC and NO terminals. It is either connected to the NC terminal or the NO terminal. Has to be one or the other depending on button position.

 

Normal means the status of the switch at rest - in other words button not pushed.

 

Make sense?

 

Garry

[jackhammer 544]

Reread  gwest-ca's   http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/user/120-gwest-ca/

 

I think your switches are good if you did it manually, In doing so you can also hear a click each time either switch is engaged.  Can you hear it ???

 

The pto diagram here 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=toro_consumer&mn=21-10K806%2C+310-8+Garden+Tractor%2C+1989&dn=810607R1-07R10094-00044  

shows that the campiece on the pto as its rotated needs to touch both switch fingers and you should hear each one click. as you did manually.

If the above all checks out I would also check for play on the pto lever and if necessary  add a shim, a skinny washer or two.. ( # 4 ) on the diagram up to the ( #7   ). I have a cotter key where the show a pop rivet

Lastly make sure ( #3grip ring  #4washer and #5 bushing) are on and tight up against the metal tower.

I replaced my 3 4 and 5 because the hole was wallowed out .

 

 

take out the battery and tray give yourself some room listen and look at the parts as they move. If you hear the pto lever cam clicking the contacts on the switches you should be good to go.

Double check and take a good look at your wiring as gwest-ca mentioned above,,    and compare to the picture here.

2 black to the battery ground screw above

top switch    blue outside left   -   orange outside right

bottom switch     purple inside      -   tan  outside right.

Edited January 4, 2015 by jackhammer

[Vincez 1]

Mowing season is here again and I still can't get the PTO cut-out switches to work.  I replaced the solenoid per my last discussion.  I am currently having to start the engine by jumping it... starts every time,  However, I would like to solve the PTO switch issue?  Any new thoughts?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

Vincez

Remove the ignition orange and dark blue wires from the pto switch and leave them isolated until you get the starter circuit figured out. It is too easy to slip or make a mistake and if voltage gets into those wires the ignition coil will go up in smoke.

The other wires of the starter circuit at the pto switch have voltage in them and these are the ones that can cause significant damage to the coil. When you get the starter half figured out you can reconnect the ignition wires.

Do you happen to have an ohmmeter or a self-powered test light that has a battery in it?

Garry

Edited June 1, 2015 by gwest_ca

[Vincez 1]

I do have an ohm meter.  I have gone back and fourth with JackHammer prior to winter.  I replaced the (2) switches and replaced the solenoid.  The machine runs fine if I jump start, but the minute I put the PTO switch connections in place, I get nothing from using the key.  Also, checked the key switch.

[Solex 27]

Remove the the bolt from the switch mounting bracket so that you can get acces to the switches. Pull the mounting bracket aside with the wires and connectors still attached. Tape the bottom switch closed or in the made position. Leave the top switch open. In my case, (312-8) this simulates a PTO disengaged situation and the engine starts. 

If your your engine starts, this is the condition you want to replicate when the switches are bolted back in relationship to the cam on the PTO handle. Again in my case the top switch metal actuator was shortened and the cam actually rubs up agiainst the plastic contact on the switch to make this top switch function. So when the PTO is engaged both switches are made.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

Take at least one of the switches back out and study it so you understand how they function. Use your ohmmeter to verify the status of the switch in each position.

Garry

Adding - The illustration is not correct in labeling the NC3 terminal. Should be NO3 = normally open 3. The NC2 = normally closed 2. Normally is the switch status when it is not activated by the button or lever.

Edited June 4, 2015 by gwest_ca

[KrazeyOlDave 859]

Guys, I’m doing a custom build on my 89 310-8, i need to bypass all of the safety switches. I don’t want to burn anything up so your help would greatly be appreciated.

[KrazeyOlDave 859]

Guys, I’m doing a custom build on my 89 310-8, i need to bypass all of the safety switches. I don’t want to burn anything up so your help would greatly be appreciated.

[953 nut 51,511]

1 hour ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

Guys, I’m doing a custom build on my 89 310-8, i need to bypass all of the safety switches. I don’t want to burn anything up so your help would greatly be appreciated.

It is not advisable to remove safety switches, custom build or not the "SAFETY SWITCHES" are there for a reason;   safety.