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nrowles

Hard Starting 1981 C-145

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When I pull the choke I can see the choke lever on the carb move quite a bit.  I could always pull the air cleaner off and see that it is wide open when not choked and shut when choked, correct?

 

And the same for throttle at carb which also moves well with the throttle lever.

 

"Linkages" set up incorrectly?

yes on the choke....remove the air cleaner and open the choke with full throttle.....look in....both should be open.....if you have some carb cleaner spray a couple shots in the carb and shut the choke only....try once more to see if you get some more revolutions.....better yet just hold yout hand over the intake instead of choking it.....should feel good suction....not pressure

 

almost starting to think the camshaft is not timed or something.....

Edited by Trouty56

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You have a very weak battery sounds like to me. Engine is turning over too slow to start.

 

The battery should be grounded to the engine. Make sure this connection is clean and tight.

 

Do you have a multimeter? If you don't go to Harbor Freight or Radio Shack and buy a cheap one. You don't need precision for what you do on these things. Better than that, get a cheap battery load tester. Again about $15.00 from Harbor Freight. You will be testing batter voltage drop when you try to start the engine.

 

From the sounds of this engine you have good compression. You say you have spark. all you need is a hot battery and fuel and it should start.

 

I am sending you a PM.

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Not an expert but I believe I saw a puff of smoke come out someware close to the carb, could the carb be lose or bad gasket , hope you get this you are close I believe. Bob

 

That is coming out the exhaust when it fires.

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ok just was not sure I believe you are close, as Nick said your motor is turning over rather slow, could be battery, starter or bad or loose conection but sounds like you have good compresion. Bob

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I am again, with Nick on this. That is too slow of a turn over to get this thing going.

 

Either weak battery (which i think you replaced?) or a weak starter (which you never did replace, right?)

 

Compression, and timing sound like they should be close enough to get this thing running.

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Yes! To slow cranking! And you are sooo close to getting it running. I was cheering for it to keep cranking while watching.

Truly believe if you correct the lack of starting crank, it would run and probably run well.

 

Can someone do a little video on their 12 horse K series start? It would give him an idea of what it is suppose to turnover at. I can't because regardless of how I post them, even a little vid is way too big a file to upload.

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Here was my C-125 when I had it: (the video is very long but you get the point in the first :26)

 

Edited by bmsgaffer

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I'm definitely with you guys after watching that video.  This tractor turned that slow since I got it, even when it would start.  Not saying I didn't have other issues, which should now be fixed, but this thing definitely needs to turn faster.  I'm really leaning towards the starter and not towards too much compression.  Reason I say that is I would be confident it didn't have too much compression when I bought it and it turned that slow then.  I have a new battery in it that has been load tested and I have cleaned all connections from the battery to the starter.  I will try the jumper cables again just be sure then I guess this weekend I will pull the starter and attempt to disassemble and clean.  Wish me luck and I will post back with results.

Edited by nrowles
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Merry Christmas to me.  Watch youtube video linked below.  Still needs some adjustments.  And there is a friction/rubbing/tapping kind of noise that sounds like it's coming from around the flywheel but there is definately nothing contacting right there.  Can you hear this?  Let me first state that my battery is new and has just recently been load tested.  This tractor started when I put a 50 amp bump to it.  I DO NOT believe it was spinning the starter any faster though.  And after it ran for awhile I shut it off, waited a minute, and it fired right back up without the 50 amp bump.  Anyways, watch the video and let me know what you hear.  I believe my distant neighbors heard me woohoo!!!

 

Why did it start with a 50 amp bump if it didn't seem like it made the starter spin faster?  At least nothing close to as fast as the video included above.

 

Do you hear the friction sound and what do you think that may be?

 

Engine is not running smooth.  Video is about 2/3 throttle after it had been running awhile.  At idle (no throttle) engine runs smooth.  Carb adjustments?

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmCMc1shTK4&list=UUSN3o_alk10JkTtW4rMLhYw&index=1

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Check to make sure that the starter gear is retracting after it starts.

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:woohoo:  Congrats man, THAT is sticking with it!

 

I think the 50 amp starter just gave the battery a little extra push to turn over a worn out starter. After you got her runnin once, she was freed up enough and oil was in the engine to make it easier to start the next round.

 

I hear what sounds like maybe a carb float problem (sounds like it gets rich every few seconds) but I don't hear any friction (I may be wrong on this, dont have a tuned ear for these things and I;m on a laptop). I think you have already done this, but if you spin the flywheel by hand without a spark plug in you will find out if there is any friction, it should spin real easy.

 

If what you hear is metallic, check the PTO side. The locking pin and clevis sometimes rattle around and make things sound worse than they are (can be checked by removing the pin, pulling the hoop aside and removing the PTO pulley bell temporarily).

 

If you want to get into it, give the carb a thorough cleaning, check and adjust float, it may help it smooth out. If you dont, then run a heavy amount of seafoam treatment in your next few tanks of gas. Its not the same but does a pretty good job for the amount of effort it requires. :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

EDIT: and all my things are after checking that the starter gear disengaged like Nick mentioned. That problem would be solved with a new starter or a rebuild like you need anyway.

Edited by bmsgaffer

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Congrat's on your accomplishment ! 

Definitely sounds to me like a fuel / float issue as stated above .

Not sure about these carbs but on the Mikuni's I work on the float height setting is critical to the smooth delivery of fuel .

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Merry Christmas....I am glad you stuck with it....someday you will help someone with a similar issue..... :)

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Glad to hear your a major step closer to having a reliable starting/running Tractor :handgestures-thumbup: .

Before you tear into the Starter again or consider replacing it, may be worth looking at replacing your Solenoid first?.

 

It will be way cheaper and quicker, they are also notorious for causing high resistance of current from a good battery.

 

The deposits on the internal contacts from 'Arc Spark' also absorb moisture in colder weather (no need to ask me how I know). 

Easy to check/test with a Volt meter and there are good help sites like this example to assist you- http://smallengineinformation.com/?page_id=441.

 

Have a Good One All !.

 

 

     

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I want to thank all you guys again for your assistance.  I put the new starter on a couple days ago and what a difference that made.  Starts in a split second now.  Been using it the last couple days and everything is running perfectly.  I adjusted the carb and the vibration was a couple missing screws in the tin that I found when cleaning off the bench.  I truly think the starter was my main problem from the beginning but I am glad I did everything else because now everything is fresh and ready to roll.  I'm really excited to get to using this tractor and see how it pushes/blows snow.

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Glad you have it fixed and you just took a crash course in Wheelhorse repairs. Invaluable stuff. 

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Congratulations  nrowles,  glad you got this thing running, this is my first post here but I was here through all the threads lurking hoping you got fire in the hole .

:eusa-clap:

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Sorry to reopen "old wounds" but I have the same problems recently  as did nrowles.  I have a 1997 Wheel Horse 314h with a Kohler 14 hp model M14S engine.  For years it was totally reliable, but recently it had developed some extreme reliability issues. One day it starts fine. The next day?? good luck.  Charge battery, unmesh trans mission, crank for 20 minutes, nothing, repeat.

I'd be happy to try to clean and rebuild the carb, but I have no clue how or where to get a carb kit for something this old. And I have no clue just what model carb it actually is.  Can anyone advise on these issues??

In the meantime, I've put Sea Foam in the gas and oil. It did start today (reluctantly) and I'm going to do some mowing primarily to get the sea foam moving thru the carb.  But I'd really like to clean it out.  Is there a decent youtube anywhere showing how to remove the carb?  I can't find one (and a few available on how to clean one are about as clear as mud).  (Where is mrpete222 when I need him??)  

Thanks to all for any assistance.  dan.

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