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Tankman

Work Horse Lighting

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Tankman

Thinkin' 'bout changing the rear reflectors to LED tail lamps.

 

Trouble is my head lamps get dim or bright depending on RPM's. Power for lighting from the 16hp Briggs is in my mind, awful. 

 

Is there another source of power for the lighting or can I just switch power to the battery?

 

Sorry, just a tin knocker, not too sparky.  :laughing-rofl:

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Geno

Hey Tank.  You must have the 3A charging system with the diode for a regulator.  You can't draw much off of the battery or the charging system won't be able to keep up.

 

I just put a new dual led tail lamp like what you want on the test bench back here and it is drawing around .140A, 2 would be .280A.  I think you can sacrifice the 1/4A from the charging system and be ok.   :)

Edited by Geno
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Tankman

Thanks Geno.

 

Then I'll just power up from the existing light switch. The grandsons want lights after I showed 'em another post with the LED tail lamps.

 

Let there be light.  :laughing-rofl:

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varosd

Thanks Geno.

 

Then I'll just power up from the existing light switch. The grandsons want lights after I showed 'em another post with the LED tail lamps.

 

Let there be light.  :laughing-rofl:

Thats what I'll do with my work horse (once I finish painting, wet sanding etc)

3 amps charging system seems crazy low.  Oh, it must go with the Briggs 18 Hp ..........w/o a oil filter!

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Save Old Iron

Thanks Geno.

 

Then I'll just power up from the existing light switch.

 

  :laughing-rofl:

 

lighting circuit is AC.

 

LED's are powered off DC.

Edited by Save Old Iron

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Tankman

Lighting circuit is AC, OK. Then SOI where can the DC come from?

 

I'm thinking the battery? Battery to switch, power to LED tail lamps, lamps grounded to the fender pan.

 

Never had a problem with the Onan 520-8 or any of my Horses and their Kohlers.

This Briggs gives me a headache although running very well now after a carb cleanin' and a lot more too!  A work in progress, a Horse one of the grandsons calls, "That's my Work Horse!"

 

The lighting is sparsely used. Most use winter snow clearin' duty.

 

OK. What might you suggest oh wise one.

 

PS: Upstate NY? Where I'm from, NYC & LI, anything above NYC is the boonies.   :laughing-rofl:

Edited by Tankman

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Geno

 

 

I'm thinking the battery? Battery to switch, power to LED tail lamps, lamps grounded to the fender pan.

 

Yep.  Sorry but I thought that's what you were doing when you mentioned the battery in the 1st post.   :)    You could also tap it into the switched feed on the key switch and forgo the extra switch, they will be on all the time but that's ok.

Edited by Geno

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Save Old Iron

or

 

if you use standard tail lights, just hook them to the headlight circuit.

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N3PUY

lighting circuit is AC.

 

LED's are powered off DC.

SOI,

    LEDs will work on AC.   They will be powered by ½ of the wave.    I learned that on Lionel trains that have an AC motor.  You would think the LED would only be half as bright being on only half of the time but it isn't noticeable.  Give it a try.

Joe

Edited by N3PUY
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Save Old Iron

Understood,

The D in LED stands for diode and will rectify AC

But,

too many unknowns, frequency of AC from stator is not a continuous frequency sine wave as with household AC transformers. The AC stator windings are at best only 1/3 of the whole stator assy. This notion instantly creates a crude pulse width modulation scenario which by definition means decreased brightness.

 

If the taillight comes on, it will not be in the superbrite fashion seen with 12 volts applied. If it lights or not may be determined by the construction of the LED element(s).

The light may be 6 LED's in series, dropping 2.5 volts per element and very small series dropping resistor. If it's just 2 LED's in parallel with a dropping resistor in each leg, changing the dropping resistor would bring them back to the brightness expected.

I have not dissected an LED tail light. I am not familiar how the manufacturer has chosen to configure them.

Edited by Save Old Iron
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Save Old Iron

any decision on which option you are considering?

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varosd

So Chuck,

                  So why do you think they went with a AC lighting system for the Briggs? because it's only 3 amps and running a more common (I guess) DC lighting system was too taxing on the system?

That being said, can old style 1 bulb or new style 2 bulb incandescent  tail lights be added to the AC system w/o having too many amp draw? 

Not sure how many amp draw was with these tail lights.

I did see a magnetic base battery powered LED tail lights with strobe that look like regular tail lights. but cost $25 each  ouch!

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pfrederi

It is not just Briggs.  Wheel Horse went cheap on several models and the Kohler on my 310-8 has AC head lights (seem to be bright enough but she isn't used at night), and a 3 amp unregulated charging system.  That is more than enough to keep the battery topped off and power some LED tail lights.

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aaubrey96

I put LEDs in place of my reflectors on my 414 and just wired it into the stock light switch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tankman

Removed the reflectors and painted, 2nd coat of Rustoleum Smoke Gray on the fender pan.

 

Picked up two tail lamps, bulb. Single bulb lights but, not much after dark drivin' around. Most night work would be in the nasty, white, wet and cold "stuff."   :laughing-rofl:

 

 

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aaubrey96

b2568833e9571c3886b2d6e36f5362d3.jpg

Mine are 4 LEDs each

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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N3PUY

OK .... I'm back ..... with pictures of LED on AC and DC.   I would have done it sooner but this computer gave up.   Now it's a 10 year old computer running Windows7.  CPU runs 100% most of the time.

  Anyhow ....  In one pic the bulb is on AC and the other pic is DC.  I forget which is which 'cause that was last week when I took the pics.  The bulb is a 12V LED used in Marx and Lionel trains.  The brightness looked the same to me.

 

post-6866-0-59215700-1415489406_thumb.jp

 

post-6866-0-67620700-1415489402_thumb.jp

 

post-6866-0-74295000-1415489400_thumb.jp

 

 

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Save Old Iron

N3,

 

thanks for getting back to me on this.

 

The assembly you have used is essentially a single LED with (most likely) a current regulator or resistor mounted in the screw in base. Since this is a single LED unit, the LED will likely light up with anything more than 3 - 4 volts applied to its contacts. Any additional power supply voltage in excess of 3 - 4 volts is likely restricted by a regulator in the base of the led. Do you have a way of measuring an AC input and varying the input to see when the LED comes on?

 

So 12 volts DC - no problem

12 volts AC - which is really pulsating 6 volts DC will also light the single bulb just as brightly.

 

Taillights or marker lights most likely do not use a single LED like yours since the bulb would have to be screwed into the socket with the dome facing outward toward observer and this would lead to a very "thick" lamp housing.

I will have to look into how LED taillights are constructed - and I'm sure they are not all the same. Each white LED takes about 3 volts to bring allow it to operate. If several 3 volt LED's are wired in series, lets say 4 of them, the lamp assy will need in excess of 12 volts to glow at full brightness. If the manufacturer wants the lamp to be illuminated at say anything over 9 volts, they could put 3 LEDs in series and use internal current regulators or a ballpark dropping resistor to allow full current allowed by the LEDs to flow at about 15 volts (the highest expected in an automotive environment.

 

So I guess the most accurate answer to Tankmans question would have been "It depends". The answer that will work for sure is "use incandescents off the headlight circuit."

 

Good reply. I'll have to grab a set of LED taillights one of these days and check how they are wired.

Edited by Save Old Iron

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meadowfield

chipping in late, all our wheel horses use LED lighting.

 

99% of the cheap chinese manufactured LED lamps/bulbs are basically current limited by resistor. The good ones use single LED's from the likes of Cree, the cheaper ones use multiples. They generally run a couple of the LED's in series with a resistor, so you can generally see a few SMD resistors on the circuit boards. Many now include an additional 120R resistor across the terminals in order for the CANbus to see them and not detect a fault.

 

Only the very expensive bulbs/lamps use a proper drive circuit that runs them at the exact current to get maximum lifetime.

 

 

...AC was used for lighting circuits for cost and efficiency, there's no voltage drop or cost incurred with a regulator or diode.

 

mark

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Save Old Iron

Mark,

I had a chance to check out the Cree 6 LED headlight assembly currently being discussed in other threads.

 

When I hooked a single assy up to a variable DC supply, as expected, no light (and no current flow) was seen until the power supply was at 8.5 volts.

 

At 11.1 volts DC, maximum current flowed @ 1.23 amps. A quick calculation shows these are not truly 18 watt lamps - more like 14 watts.

 

Any DC voltage over 11.3 resulted in an actual foldback of current down to under the 1 amp level and a slight decrease in brightness from the lamp assembly. At 14.0 volts, only 0.92 amps were drawn and power consumption decreased to 13 watts.

 

Once I do a lumen check, I will try to investigate how these assemblies act on a 12 volt unregulated AC supply. I suspect they will not light near idle but will at partial to full throttle (at a decreased brightness due to pulse width modulation). I'll let the measurement of the lumen output speak to that issue.

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Save Old Iron

...AC was used for lighting circuits for cost and efficiency, there's no voltage drop or cost incurred with a regulator or diode.

 

mark

 

I understand the opportunity to use AC as a power and $$ saving option and I know not everyone makes demands of their electrical systems.

 

I just don't understand why they would choose to save $25 on a $2500 tractor by installing an unregulated system.

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varosd

test run on the Work Horse LED Tail light addition. Running and lighting just fine!.  bad picture, sorry.  these are the LED M9 Marker lights from superbright.

 

11161416231_zps1caccee0.jpg

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