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Dave H.

Can A Wheel Horse Tractor Survive an EMP Attack?

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Dave H.

This is a question I can't find the answer to. It pertains to Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP) protection of Wheel Horse Tractors.

 

Can most Wheel Horse Tractors survive an EMP attack?

 

Side stepping the fact that fuel and lubrication supplies may be limited or impossible to come by, I'd like to know if there is a particular model of Wheel Horse Tractor that would be worth purchasing that can sustain an EMP burst.

 

There are many electrical experts on this forum, and it would be appreciated for any suggestions you may have.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave 

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Zeek

If you have a couple of hours to kill, you can look at this http://www.empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf

 

Since the grass will likely be fried from the initial nuclear blast, at least you won't have worry about a deck  :popcorn:

Edited by Zeek
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Jrblanke

After pushing my old C100 up some ramps and onto the back of a pickup, I am convinced my WH could withstand a direct nuclear blast, not just the EMP. 

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Aldon

As I understand it in laymans terms, EMP basically hits with magnetic charge that seeks ground.

 

In Micro circuits it turns lands or very fine wires into fuses.

 

And in many cases it would blow or burn out the miniature fuse/wire.

 

The older less electronic models in most cases should be fine.

 

Might be another way to make use of a snow cab. Make a Faraday cage our of it and ground it:)

Edited by Aldon
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Ed Kennell

I'd consider losing all my WHs a win if the EMP  also killed all  the stink bugs.

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Dave H.
Good Morning Folks,
 
Thanks for the replies. Due to work, this is the first chance I’ve had to respond.
 
From the humorous to the serious answers, I would say the link from Zeek was a good start point in explaining the EMP blast effects.
 
Aldon’s statement over the older less electronic models makes sense. I’ve been looking at the older Kohlers (with spare rebuild parts) to store away for “such an eventâ€, so we can keep our tractors/ tiller & plow + other survival equipment “at the readyâ€.
 
Sure hope I don’t come over as someone who thinks the sky is falling. I would just prefer to be prepared for the worst, and hope it’s never needed. These old Wheel Horses could make a great small survival garden a practical reality if the time comes.
 
I’m still hoping a specific Wheel Horse Model could be mentioned that engine & tractor parts could be planned into the survivalist equation.
 
Thanks for taking time to answer.
 
Dave
 

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bmsgaffer
I’m still hoping a specific Wheel Horse Model could be mentioned that engine & tractor parts could be planned into the survivalist equation.

 

I think anything from 1960-1980's would be a good candidate.

 

The earlier models would be good because you can find them in pull start and don't have to worry about batteries. The disadvantage is that these can be harder to find, not as many left as the later models.

 

The later models (1970's on) have electric start only I think so that would be a difficulty but they are EVERYWHERE. And almost everything on all the models is interchangeable. I doubt there will be a specific model that someone would recommend (C160=C165=416 just different years and body panels, but you wouldnt care what it looks like in a survival situation).

 

You could always swap on a pull start engine but the PTO's on the later models would be hard on any non-wheelhorse-spec engine.

 

So in summary:

If you are OK with having batteries and electric start - go with any 8 speed, single cylinder tractor from 1970-1990's. There are some fancier gauges on the later models but they generally are not required to work.

 

If not, collect some pull starts from the mid 1960's and collect a LOT of them to have plenty of spare parts.

 

The specific model doesnt matter because the base tractors are exactly the same from each era.

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Save Old Iron

just box up spare ignition coils or magnetos in whatever is considered "EMP proof" storage

 

everything else on the c series is immune

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Dave H.

bmsgaffer / Save Old Iron,

 

Great advice! That's what I needed to know. I don't know if a Wheel Horse can be Push Started by releasing the clutch and turning the engine over that way, I've never tried it. But the pull start option is reliable and "old-school".

 

Now I know which direction to start with.

 

To all of you.....Thanks! I know this was a pretty weird question to be asking here. But your answers are appreciated.

 

Dave

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bmsgaffer

And to your other question, if you find a decent hill and good traction (or something to pull you), then yes the tractor can be "bump started" in 3rd gear - hi range but the K series kohlers need a battery to keep them running reliably (coil-points ignition) where the magnums do not (they are magneto ignition).

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Old Ways

To be honest, if something like that happened fuel would be nearly nonexistant --so something with a K-181 or smaller would be my bet.  Big enough to get the job done, and sip fuel doing it.

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RMCIII

just box up spare ignition coils or magnetos in whatever is considered "EMP proof" storage

 

everything else on the c series is immune

 

:text-+1:  :text-yeahthat: And if it truly get's that bad, and we are still around, I would have invested in an EF-111, fitted with AIM - 9 launchers. Hiding in one of my hangers ready to deliver an EMP blast that would devestate anything else remaining! :laughing-rofl:  Serious though. Not sure I would even want to be around if we are talking about what would run after an EMP blast. What is the point? I'd rather be in Heaven where it is all nice and peaceful!

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Molon_Labe

There's also the solid state rectifier/regulator to be concerned with. Like RMCIII said, probably better to just go out with the flash :laughing-rofl:

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wh500special

As I've learned in the last year at work, shielding against electromagnetic radiation is a pretty tough nut to crack.  Even on our systems that are engineered to keep the waves out, it's tough to get a good seal without a lot of testing and fussing around.  You can try to squirrel things away in aluminum foil or in a metal box, but any little error in the structure is just going to create a slit antenna that lets the radiation in thus potentially frying your component inside.

 

If you really think this is something you want to prepare for, you really ought to create a special EMP model with a manual start diesel engine.  I guess the 512D might be the ultimate factory EMP special, but they didn't sell them here in the US.  A diesel engine might be capable of burning a wider range of fuels and would have no electrical system to be corrupted by errant currents induced by an EMP.

 

There isn't much to an old engine, but I'd guess that the windings of wire in the coil or magneto might suck up EMP energy and cook something.  Despite their simplicity, even the oldest and simplest engines would be vulnerable.

 

I think the big problem with being prepared is that you're sure to draw a crowd of unprepared folks to your place.  if they know you're living large compared to them, they're sure to come knocking.  You can't shoot them all either, someday they'll surprise you on their terms.

 

I related a story to Duke once about the 520H he converted into his snow chucker, I can repeat it here since it seems appropriate:

 

I responded to a CL ad for a fairly priced 520H and I was wanting one at the time.  The price was right and we agreed on a meeting time at the seller's place.  The directions he gave me were very thorough and ended with "turn down the dirt road..."

 

Anyway, I found my way out there - trailer in tow - and proceded down the dirt lane through a grove of trees.  In a clearing was a nice little farmhouse, a couple barns, a huge garden, and a bunch of goats wandering about. Not a soul in sight.  I spied the 520H sitting over on the edge of the garden, so drove over there to prepare for loading it.

 

When I put the car in park, I looked out my window and standing right on the other side of the glass was the owner.  i have no idea where he was hiding because moments before he wasn't anywhere to be seen.  This was a completely open field with at least 200' of clear radius in all directions.  It was like he came out of the sand.  And, he was accompanied by his big dog.

 

I opened the door and we greeted each other.  Nice guy.  As we exhanged cash and loaded the tractor we talked about the tractor, gardens, goats and goat milk, watermelons, the Cardinals, etc.  You know how guys are, takes only minutes to become like old friends.  i told him what a nice place he had and how I was envious of his location.

 

That's when the conversation got more serious.

 

He told me that he had enough of living in the city so moved out there for more room.  He and his family could live as they liked and nobody bothered them.  Sounded great to me.  Then he got real close to me, took a careful look around, and told me in a hushed voice that "if the XXXX ever goes down, you're welcome to come out here with us...".  It was nice to know.  But I was instructed to bring things with me other than money if I came.

 

Apparently he had quite the arsenal stashed away in the house, barn, etc.  Plus extra stuff hidden and buried in the woods in case he ever had to retake his place after being driven out.

 

He also had two years' worth of food canned in mason jars.  Two YEARS.  Plus the goats.  In addition to the property I was on, he also has another place somewhere to the south that was a 3 day walk away.  He knew it was 3 days, because he's walked it before.  And, evidently, a person can carry 3 days of rations on their person if necessary.

 

I found all of this fascinating. 

 

He had no need for a tractor to live out his plan.  But he also has a head start on things compared to pretty much everybody else I have ever met.

 

I can't say I was completely comfortable out there n the middle of nowhere alone with this guy, but I didn't feel unsafe either.  Seemed like a perfectly smart, sane, normal guy with some rather impressive prepping habits.

 

You meet the most interesting people on a Wheel Horse...

 

Steve

Edited by wh500special
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Aldon

Preparedness minded people will usually be marginalized by the unprepared as a way to assuage their own anxieties.

Planning for a rainy day has historically been prudent.

With Ebola and whatnot, storing enough for a potential quarantine seems altogether rational. However it would have been deemed extremist a few months ago.

It should be no surprise that when you meet someone who is planning when no urgent need is plain will seem intensely serious.

Planning for the worst and hoping for the best is a good SOP.

.

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Dave H.
wh500special, that was quite a post!
 
I always feel bad when I respond late to your answers, but my work load right now prohibits me from getting behind the computer as much as I’d like.
 
Prepping, Survivalist Mentality, Self Sufficiency? This will always be a “Grey Zone†where no one is completely right or wrong. Everyone will have a different opinion.
 
Having served in some real sh*% holes in the past internationally, I’ve observed the people who survive and the ones that perish. The ones who survived had one thing in common; They were self-sustaining. Weather it was food supplies buried underground or keeping the carbs on their vehicles working with duct tape, some old springs and baling wire, they utilized the “solutions†at hand.
 
As well, they planned ahead.
 
A part of that planning also involves “finding a teacherâ€. Learning from others is a key ingredient to survival. I don’t care if it’s bending the ear of some old Master Chief on the ship, or asking for advice on a forum such as this. There is a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you’re just willing to ask for advice and listen carefully to the answers. Not every answer will be to your liking, but for the most part, it’s all a part of the overall equation.
 
Sure, I have no doubt that for every “survival solution†I come up with, there’ll be some A-Hole that’ll be trying to steal it or kill me for it. That’s the way of life. I just know I’m not going curl up in the corner of some room and give up. Not without a fight!
 
So, if and when the time comes that the system takes a cr*p, I’m going to keep the LED lights on, be nice and warm next to my barrel stoves, keep my solar chargers and batteries topped off and know my Wheel Horses are ready for tilling and planting.
 
Will I survive for long, probably not. But at least I went down knowing I did everything I could. And I wasn’t a taker......I provided for myself and family.
 
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. I appreciate all your replies.
 
Best Regards To All,
 
Dave
 
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Geno

If you want to make it easy just get a diesel for it, I'm picking one up this weekend.  :handgestures-thumbsup:

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Dave H.

Preparedness minded people will usually be marginalized by the unprepared as a way to assuage their own anxieties.

Planning for a rainy day has historically been prudent.

With Ebola and whatnot, storing enough for a potential quarantine seems altogether rational. However it would have been deemed extremist a few months ago.

It should be no surprise that when you meet someone who is planning when no urgent need is plain will seem intensely serious.

Planning for the worst and hoping for the best is a good SOP.

.

Fully Agree Aldon. Glad I'm not coming over like a nut-case :)

If you want to make it easy just get a diesel for it, I'm picking one up this weekend.  :handgestures-thumbsup:

 

Geno, I'm looking into that. The fuel alternatives alone are worth investigating.

 

Thanks.

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Geno

I figure if we have a SHTF scenario a lot more people will be needing gas rather than diesel, also most diesels are much more fuel efficient.  Plus dad has a few 1,000 gallon tanks of it at the farm.   :handgestures-thumbsup:

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wh500special

It's hard to convey tone in postings like this.  I hope nobody inferred I was being too judegmental and dismissive of the guy who I portrayed or of their brethren.  I found his preparations absolutely fascinating.  Perfectly rational and clear thought went into everything he did.

 

And EMP is pretty likely someday.  Whether it comes from the cosmos or from some human induced activity.  I'm just not sure in an urban or suburban setting like mine that there is much that can reasonably be done to prepare.

 

Steve

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Dave H.

It's hard to convey tone in postings like this.  I hope nobody inferred I was being too judegmental and dismissive of the guy who I portrayed or of their brethren.  I found his preparations absolutely fascinating.  Perfectly rational and clear thought went into everything he did.

 

And EMP is pretty likely someday.  Whether it comes from the cosmos or from some human induced activity.  I'm just not sure in an urban or suburban setting like mine that there is much that can reasonably be done to prepare.

 

Steve

 

Steve I thought your post was great! Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

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wh500special

You didn't.  But I read back thru it and thought some may take it that way.

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floor-it

Dave,

 

An EMP pulse can and will cause failure of many electronic systems if in close proximity to the blast due to the high energy particles and waves that are generated.  Basically any Wheel Horse Tractor that has a voltage regulator and rectifier diodes in it can sustain damage.  The Voltage Regulator has transistors and diodes in it that can be damaged from the pulse.  The transistor and diode is composed of Silicon that has been doped with impurities to make it a semiconductor.  Silicon itself is a very weak bond and this bond is broken from the high energy wave and particles.  Once the bonds are broken the transistor or diode will be shorted and will not function.  

 

So to answer your question, broadly speaking a WH Tractor could survive an EMP if it did not contain any Silicon Transistors or Diodes.  This means it would have to have an 50's or early 60's voltage regulator in it that is based upon the 3 different charging current magnetic coils that close a relay to accomplish battery charging at 3 different current levels.

 

Normally, I think that if the Tractor were to survive, that the person riding it would not, so I really haven't given this much thought.

 

In the heated cold war of the 80's when I worked for GE Ordnance Systems on the Trident Submarine Weapon Fire Control System we all talked about the Soviet Tanks Weapon Systems that were based upon Vacuum Tubes so that they could survive an EMP pulse.

 

Well, I thought I would contribute to this post, as today is my 5th Anniversary in the WH Red Square Forum.  Go Wheel Horse!

 

Gary (Electrical Engineer) 

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Dave H.

Gary, Brilliant! Very consise and to the point.

 

I'm already purchasing several dedicated "EMP Proof" storage containers for the Wheel Horse electrical spares and other components for our solar charging system, radios, water purificaton systems, etc., etc..Thanks for helping to identify the weak spots on the Wheel Horse that need addressing.

 

A link for those interested can be found at: http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/emp-electromagnetic-pulse/

 

B.T.W. Happy 5th. on the forum! And many thanks for your thoughtful post. Very Much Appreciated!

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thehorse

If you would like to read a VERY good book that is based on an emp attack and is very realistic, One Second After is a must read. One

Of the best books I've read in a long time. It will make you do a lot of thinking.

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