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wake49

854 woodruff keys and brake drum

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wake49

I am replacing the oil seals in the tranny, and have access to all but two of them.

First problem is my left rear axle woodruff is frozen in place. Emptied a bottle of PB on it over the course of a week and not moving. I think it flattened out and swelled in place. How do les anyone else free up a frozen woodruff key?

Second problem is I have no idea how to get the brake drum (is it a drum? That's the best description I have) off its axle. I pulled the C-clip off and it is is not moving. Do people use pullers on these? Is there a risk in doing that with a puller?

Thanks in advance

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Racinbob

Check for a set screw on that brake drum. Using a puller would be fine if you can get the jaws behind the drum. There's not much room.

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Ed Kennell

A big pair of water pump pliers across the long length of the key.

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wake49

A big pair of water pump pliers across the long length of the key.

Channel locks?

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slammer302

I've had a hard time getting the brake drum off I use large chisel that fits in between the brake drum and the tranny case tight and work it around tapping it with a hammer be careful don't want to crack something

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AMC RULES

From experience...   :eusa-doh: 

don't try this method with the drive pulley.

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wake49

Since it is easily accessible and I cannot easily get it off right now, I may leave it for the time being. I have no leak at that seal (that I can see) so it was more me being proactive than anything.

 

On the Woodruff key, should I heat it? 

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Ed Kennell

Try the heat. Just don't damage the seal.

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wake49

Try the heat. Just don't damage the seal.

 

Thanks, but that seal is already damaged. That is why I need to get the key out.

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Racinbob

I don't think I've ever had a key stuck that bad. I've had ornery ones though. I usually take a smaller cold chisel and rap it from the end (chisel parallel with the axle). Also, before you install the new seal make sure you completely remove all the burrs from the axle. There's bound to be some.

Edited by Racinbob
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Ed Kennell

Are you sure a PO didn't weld the key in place to repair a wallowed out keyway?

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Racinbob

:eek: :eek: Never thought about that Ed. Let's hope not for wake's sake.

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wake49

Are you sure a PO didn't weld the key in place to repair a wallowed out keyway?

 

No, I don't think they welded. If he welded them, he is a one heck of a welder. I don't see a weld anywhere.

 

I think it is just flattened out and being extra stubborn. I was also not too aggressive with it. I didn't want to destroy anything beating on it senselessly...

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Ed Kennell

I hear Ya Wake, don't beat on the key.   Especially from the  tranny side....doesn't take much to pull the snap ring off  the  axle inside the tranny.

 

Did you try any heat yet ?

 

One last resort ... drill a few 1/8" holes thru the key to get the PB blaster to the bottom of the key.  That should be a 3/16 thick  X 1" dia key  so you can judge how deep you need to drill to hit the axle.

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oldlineman

Thats what I was going to suggest drill some holes. :text-yeahthat:

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pacer

Woodruff keys can be notoriously stuck, I had one in a milling machine that my 50 yr experienced machinist friend and I worked on half a day, ended up tearing apart that part of the machine to get the shaft on the bench and in a vise, almost totally destroyed the key before it finally came out...

 

Drilling holes is probably a good idea at this point, then do the chisel thing that racinbob described. Very possibly youll have to get a pretty good whack on it to move it!

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jrc0528

I've had a couple get stubborn on me...   Once the hub is off and the key exposed I line up a cold chisel from the end of the axle side, as stated earlier parallel to the axle (or nearly, I usually aim it slightly down so it is nosed into the corner of the key and axle) and give it a good sharp rap with a decent hammer.  A tap or three has always been enough for mine, but do be sure not to drive the axle out of the transmission!

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64s

I agree with Racinbob and jrc0528.  Give the key a good hard wack on its end.  The key should rear up o the other end and you should be able to grab it with vice grips to get it out.  Just make sure you support the axle under the key.  I've only done it 2 or 3 times, but its always worked.

 

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ri702bill

Years ago, I worked for a local specialty Machine Tool builder. One of the many homemade tools we all had was an adapter to mate up a Vise Grip to a small dent puller slide hammer. Nothing more than a 4 inch long piece of threaded rod to replace the adjusting screw. the other end went into a 2 inch long piece of 3/4 inch hex stock, tapped to accept the threaded rod at one end and 1/2-20 at the other for the slide hammer. Lock onto the woodruff key at one end 90 degrees to the shaft, a couple of taps with the hammer and the key moves up out of the keyway and the out. This method applies force perpendicular to the shaft, unlike using a chisel inline to the shaft. Also works great on square cut flat keys, too.

 

Bill

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JERSEYHAWG /  Glenn

Wake, try that whack to loosen the key. On my 854 it was similar, after soaking with everything I had discovered the key was riding up one side putting pressure on the hub. Some light taps with a punch freed it up. When I got the hub off I discovered so much crud in it that it had it jambed up. Good luck, be persistant and carefull.

Glenn

Edited by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn

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wake49

I have been using a chisel and a dead-blow hammer to persuade the key out of its keyway. I have been beating on it almost every other day for around 20 minutes at a clip. I spray it with PB. I beat on it some more. 

 

I took the weekend off from the key to drive to VT and pick up a Cub that I need to put a new engine in. Tonight I will go home again and return to persuading. Tomorrow (if it is not raining) I will try a torch for a few minutes with more hammering on it.

 

Thanks everyone for helping out!

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JERSEYHAWG /  Glenn

Wake, keep us posted. I am waiting for you to raise the victory flag.

Glenn

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stevasaurus

Those keys are soft metal...compared to the axles.  I can't believe you can't take a sharp chisel and come at it down the axle shaft and put a notch in it and pry it up...you can hit it pretty good with a 2 lb hammer and be OK.  Don't be afraid to give it a good whaack going towards the trans housing.  Hit it right at the axle...dig in and pry up.  :)

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wake49

It has started to notch out, but not move. Stuck right where it sits. Even my chisel has a notch where I am coming at the key.

 

I tried again yesterday beating on it towards the housing until my arm couldn't take anymore. No avail.

 

I am going to try heat. I also think I am going to drill down into the key to split it in half and try to dig out one side at a time. Hopefully one of these two methods works...

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pacer

Are you still using a dead blow hammer? if so switch to a 'real' hammer, you need that "sharp impact" from steel on steel. I personally have never been impressed with the dead blow hammers, they seem to 'deaden' the blow TOO much. Obviously you have got a real doozie!

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