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chipwitch

Multiple implements simultaneously

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chipwitch

I was just wondering how you all handle having multiple implements mounted at the same time.  I'm making a homemade 3 point hitch for my C-125 and was thinking about using the tractor's lift arm to control it.  But as I was thinking about how the linkage would connect, it occurred to me that if I installed a mower deck while my tiller was attached, the lift arm would have to lift both implements at the same time. Eventually, I'll probably convert to hydraulics or electric, but I need it immediately. I'm trying to get my fall crop in the ground.  Needs to be done soon. 

 

Front mount dozer blades have a dedicated lift arm on the right?  I may just put a dedicated arm on the 3 pt too. 

 

Also, is there any configuration you can imagine where some implement might need to be connected to the lift arm that is NOT on the rear of the tractor?  If so, would I need to disconnect the 3 pt lift cable to attach it or can you have two lift cables connected at the same time?  My goal is to never have to remove the 3 point for any configuration.

 

Thanks.

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bmsgaffer

dozers are lifted with the same rock shaft as mower deck and tiller. The arm on the right side is for left/right angling from the seat.

 

You will have to add hydraulic (if you design carefully, you can use the eaton hydro pump) or electric mechanisms.

 

There is only provisions for a single attachment (that needs lifting anyway) on a tractor at a time. (Thus why many here have more than one tractor).

 

EDIT: just saw you have an 8 speed, so you would either have to get a hydro tractor or add a separate belt driven hydro pump.

Edited by bmsgaffer

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RMCIII

You know, that is the ONLY REASON I will consider purchasing something that is not RED!...... Besides a SCUT, IMHO, I believe the 140H-3 is the best all around, all purpose Garden Tractor. Allows you to run several attachments at 1 time without having to "rig" something together. :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

 

Rob

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baerpath

We used a electric over hydraulic setup from a snowplow when we added a 3pt to the 516 8spd. Cheap and light Only you'll need a larger than stock battery

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chipwitch

We used a electric over hydraulic setup from a snowplow when we added a 3pt to the 516 8spd. Cheap and light Only you'll need a larger than stock battery

 Couldn't just install a belt driven car alternator for that system?  No battery?

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WH nut

 Couldn't just install a belt driven car alternator for that system?  No battery?

You would still need a battery for someplace to store the energy produced by the alternator.

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chipwitch

Why is that?  Once you start your car, you can remove the battery and drive till you run out of fuel.

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chazm

:idea: ...The solution to all your issues is 2-3 more :wh: ...... :thumbs:

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Geno

:idea: ...The solution to all your issues is 2-3 more :wh: ...... :thumbs:

 

Spoken by a true addict.  :laughing-rolling:   This is the best solution!  No more hooking and unhooking!    :text-woo:

Edited by Geno
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bmsgaffer

Why is that?  Once you start your car, you can remove the battery and drive till you run out of fuel.

 

That can be true in some older cars (called generators technically, not alternators), but many newer alternators are 'excited' by the battery (a small amount of battery power is required to get it to output its power) so if there is no battery, the alternator will not even turn on (and if it did the output voltage would run out of control and blow up a lot of fancy electrical components).

 

It also depends on the draw of the electrical system. There can be large quick draws on the system (like the starting of the electric-hydraulic pump for example) that will draw power faster than the alternator can provide it. If you didn't have a battery in the system to provide the extra the voltage would drop significantly and likely damage the alternator and the pump. :angry-extinguishflame:

 

Alternators provide plenty of amps, you may say, as most newer versions can supply over 100 amps. When an alternator is at full draw it can take well over 10HP to run it... If you happen to be doing something else with some of your horsepower at the moment you would be in quite a bind. :banana-explosion:

 

So put a battery in the system :handgestures-thumbupright:

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chipwitch

Geno, if I had half the money you have, you can bet I would!  :)

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chipwitch

Bmsgaffer, a battery is just something else to maintain and they don't like Florida Heat.  A voltage regulator and current limiting circuitry can circumvent all the issues you point out.  I haven't heard of generators being used in the automotive industry since the 70's.  Are there any manufacturers that have used generators in the last 30 years?  I'd think they'd be hard to find.  Aircraft maybe.  The output of today's alternators are more than powerful enough and would never be used at full load in any application I'm imagining.   1/4 HP DC motor would only be about 15A draw.  Yes, it would be a load on the engine... that's why they have the HP.  I agree the battery would be better, smoother operation.  There's no argument there.  I just don't think it's essential.

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bmsgaffer

Bmsgaffer, a battery is just something else to maintain and they don't like Florida Heat.  A voltage regulator and current limiting circuitry can circumvent all the issues you point out.  I haven't heard of generators being used in the automotive industry since the 70's.  Are there any manufacturers that have used generators in the last 30 years?  I'd think they'd be hard to find.  Aircraft maybe.  The output of today's alternators are more than powerful enough and would never be used at full load in any application I'm imagining.   1/4 HP DC motor would only be about 15A draw.  Yes, it would be a load on the engine... that's why they have the HP.  I agree the battery would be better, smoother operation.  There's no argument there.  I just don't think it's essential.

 

They are just called "one-wire" alternators now, those don't need any regulation circuitry. Available with a V-belt pulley and usually made for crate engines like the Chevy 350 @ about 60 amps.

 

Fair enough about the battery maintenance, personally I would try going for a hydro setup. You could find a c-series with the Eaton 1100 cheap enough and its relatively simple to add another valve and piston to the system from a donor tractor. (the valves can stack i believe, so you would just need to do a little plumbing)

 

I think it would be a lot easier than trying to mount up an alternator, and find a mounting place for the electric-hydraulic pump. (This is all assuming you are using the setup from an old snowplow like someone mentioned above.)

 

If you are just doing a linear actuator (which i think is what you are suggesting at 1/4 hp), I think you would be perfectly fine using the tractors charging system as long as you aren't going up an down repeatedly and quickly. Maybe just put the largest "lawn and garden' battery that fits without modification.

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chipwitch

They are just called "one-wire" alternators now, those don't need any regulation circuitry. Available with a V-belt pulley and usually made for crate engines like the Chevy 350 @ about 60 amps.

 

Fair enough about the battery maintenance, personally I would try going for a hydro setup. You could find a c-series with the Eaton 1100 cheap enough and its relatively simple to add another valve and piston to the system from a donor tractor. (the valves can stack i believe, so you would just need to do a little plumbing)

 

I think it would be a lot easier than trying to mount up an alternator, and find a mounting place for the electric-hydraulic pump. (This is all assuming you are using the setup from an old snowplow like someone mentioned above.)

 

If you are just doing a linear actuator (which i think is what you are suggesting at 1/4 hp), I think you would be perfectly fine using the tractors charging system as long as you aren't going up an down repeatedly and quickly. Maybe just put the largest "lawn and garden' battery that fits without modification.

 

Hydro would no doubt be better.  I don't have much experience with it so I don't have the equipment, parts etc.  I've thought about using an old JD hydro transmission I have, but I haven't looked at it to see if it would work for that task.  I could buy a used pump local for a hundred bucks or so... but after buying hoses and control valves, etc I'd have a bigger investment than going electric.  Plus, running plumbing is far more difficult than running wire.  I wouldn't be opposed to the tractor's electrical system.  I hadn't gotten to the point of assessing it yet.  I was just considering that electrical was "doable" even if I had to put on an auxiliary alternator.  It's fun thinking about alternatives, don't ya thing?.... I'm an outside-the-box kind of gal ;)

 

Since I'm only running a C-125, it looks like there's enough room under the hood for the right auxiliary power plant.  Linear actuators are exactly what I was considering. :thumbs:

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bmsgaffer

Oh I know all about outside the box. :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

I am in the process of designing a digital controller / dash board for my 520/C-205HD project. All led lights and my own LED strobe controller.

 

I am not a hydro person either, but I am finicky about form factor for certain things. I am looking at doing hydro angle + extensions on my snow plow too because I'm too impatient to wait for the actuators (not to mention the fact that I don't think that electric actuators would survive long riding on a snow plow frame) I have to wait to find a friend that can do the hoses and stuff though. I will be doing an actuator for a dump cart though.

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chipwitch

Yum... digital dash?  I want to see that!!  What are you planning for it?  What's the LED strobe controller for?  I'm not familiar.

 

You can't beat hydro.  I keep swearing I'm going to get my feet wet one of these days.  Ran across some NOS cylinders a year or so ago that were too cheap to turn down.  Didn't have a specific project in mind, but I bought them anyway.  They're all smaller, perfect for the WH.  No long ones... maybe up to 8" or so.  Not enough for a loader lift boom, but I'm going to run some numbers.  Since it doesn't have to lift much weight (tractor tips over, lol) I'm thinking I may be able to rig something up with a shorter throw, less leverage.  Maybe install tandem short throw cylinders instead of single long throw.

 

Find a friend?  lol.  I'm not sure why I find that funny.  Picturing you out looking for friends... maybe taking out a personal ad on CL?  "WH enthusiast seeks hydraulic technician for platonic relationship.  Will be willing to loan tools to the right person.  Having access to CNC machine shop a plus.  Likes: drinking bear while mowing the lawn at sunset, well-tuned v-twins and long rides in the country to pick up a new Horse I found on CL.  Dislikes: Box store tractors, ethanol and John Deere.  Must love horses."

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bmsgaffer

Yum... digital dash?  I want to see that!!  What are you planning for it?  What's the LED strobe controller for?  I'm not familiar.

 

All the details aren't nailed down yet, but everything will be controlled by a 'black box' (since much of the wiring is trash anyways). I'm sending you a PM on the details. I've put out feelers on here before and it seems there's not a lot of interest.

 

Find a friend?  lol.  I'm not sure why I find that funny.  Picturing you out looking for friends... maybe taking out a personal ad on CL?  "WH enthusiast seeks hydraulic technician for platonic relationship.  Will be willing to loan tools to the right person.  Having access to CNC machine shop a plus.  Likes: drinking bear while mowing the lawn at sunset, well-tuned v-twins and long rides in the country to pick up a new Horse I found on CL.  Dislikes: Box store tractors, ethanol and John Deere.  Must love horses."

YES! We need wheel horse personals. There not a lot of WH enthusiasts near enough to me to visit. There's only a few on this forum within two hours of here and I have a family and a full time job so it limits my 'free time'.

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Geno

Geno, if I had half the money you have, you can bet I would!  :)

 

I don't have a lot of money, I just buy them cheap.   :laughing-rolling:

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chipwitch

Geno, down here you need a lot of money to buy a bunch of tractors.  They're as rare as a Pigs in Palestine.

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Geno

They are just called "one-wire" alternators now, those don't need any regulation circuitry. Available with a V-belt pulley and usually made for crate engines like the Chevy 350 @ about 60 amps.

 

Here's a pic of a "one wire" on the backhoe I'm rewiring now -

post-13404-0-26014200-1412707825_thumb.j

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Geno

Geno, down here you need a lot of money to buy a bunch of tractors.  They're as rare as a Pigs in Palestine.

 

I guess if I lived there I wouldn't have many.  :eusa-doh:

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baerpath

That can be true in some older cars (called generators technically, not alternators), but many newer alternators are 'excited' by the battery (a small amount of battery power is required to get it to output its power) so if there is no battery, the alternator will not even turn on (and if it did the output voltage would run out of control and blow up a lot of fancy electrical components).

 

It also depends on the draw of the electrical system. There can be large quick draws on the system (like the starting of the electric-hydraulic pump for example) that will draw power faster than the alternator can provide it. If you didn't have a battery in the system to provide the extra the voltage would drop significantly and likely damage the alternator and the pump. :angry-extinguishflame:

 

Alternators provide plenty of amps, you may say, as most newer versions can supply over 100 amps. When an alternator is at full draw it can take well over 10HP to run it... If you happen to be doing something else with some of your horsepower at the moment you would be in quite a bind. :banana-explosion:

 

So put a battery in the system :handgestures-thumbupright:

Electric system on the 516 is fine it's the reserve that needs to be upped. A small car battery like a Optima yellow works great. Being sealed you don't have to worry about tipping it.

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can whlvr

heres my homemade rear lift,its manual,you pull the chain and hook it in the slot to hold up the implement,it allows me to use the tractor lift on something else

012.jpg

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chipwitch

Don, having trouble wrapping my brain around it.  How's that thing work? 

 

:ychain:

 

Seriously, you just can't get any simpler than that.  I may have to do something similar... the clock is ticking on me.  Thanks for the pic

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Pullstart

how much time does it take to pull the deck on the c frame tractor so you can just run the tiller?  maybe that would be a better solution than rigging up a second lift system.  it's funny, up until about 2 months ago my slot hitch was solid mounted to the transmission with a piece of flat stock and the cable was disconnected.  now that I've got the cable hooked up I forget about moving the hitch and the deck at the same time!   nice to have options, but I'm wondering when I'll get used to them.  :)

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