1995 Kohler 14?

[Dgibby 32]

Hi to all!

I recently got given a 314-8 that's in great condition and runs well but I notice a bit of a sputter. I little background on what I have done so far since I got it.

change oil and gear oil, plug, air filter, fuel filter all the fuel lines, fuel shut off valve has been replaced, and the coil wire needed to be repaired.

2 things I noticed was.... 1. the fuel filter only as a drop of fuel in it even when it's running. Is that normal? My crapsman filter is full of fuel! And 2. the replacement plug that the Toro dealer gave me was a ngk. It calls for a champion and i know some engines are picky about plugs! Any help is appreciated thanks, Dennis

[rmaynard 14,895]

My filters only show a tiny bit of fuel as well. Sounds to me like it's time to pull the carburetor and do a complete cleaning.

[Geno 1,928]

   Best place to start.

[Dgibby 32]

I was afraid if that. It's weird it'll purr like a kitten for a good 5 to 10 seconds some times longer and then do a little pa...pa. if you know what I mean lol!

[Dgibby 32]

Do you think it could be the coil wire repair I did? I followed this technique I found online. I put heat shrink over the connection to better insulate it. How to Join Ignition Leads: http://youtu.be/gvqJGNmIIeE

[rmaynard 14,895]

I never try to repair a coil wire. I replace them. They aren't that expensive if you do a little searching on eBay.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Do you think it could be the coil wire repair I did?

Absolutely yes, especially if the splice is within an inch or so of a metal chassis part.

 

the 30,000 volts from the inner lead of the cable can easily jump thru a superglue or heatshrink tubing repair.

 

spritz water (with one drop of dishwashing liquid) onto the ignition system

if the miss gets worse, you have found a problem.

[Fordiesel69 210]

Help us, to help you.  Post a video so we can understand the symptoms. 

[Dgibby 32]

I tried to take a video but you couldn't really hear it not sure if the mic on my phone was trying to cancel out some of the noise. But I put a small piece of cardboard in front of the muffler and you can see when it gives a little sputter or backfire. It wasn't doing it as much today. In the video I have it at just over half throttle. It does it a full throttle also. Thanks for all the help.

Watch "Sputter" on YouTube

Sputter: http://youtu.be/mFshnJkE9Ds

[Geno 1,928]

In your opening post you said there was practically no fuel in the filter, is that still true?  If so, start there.  If you take the line off of the carb do you get a good stream of fuel?

 

Always better to fix what the eye can see first instead of chasing after other things.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Geno

[Dgibby 32]

Yes. Still only a little fuel in the filter.

You can see very little fuel at the bottom.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Dgibby

[Dgibby 32]

I'm going to take the carburetor off one day this week and give it a good cleaning. Do I need to get a gasket kit? Not sure what I need to pull the carb.

[Geno 1,928]

There's a rubber ring around the fuel bowl but it should be reusable. 

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

I would be inclined to take a look at the valves and guides.

 

The engine is essentially an air pump, whether it ignites the fuel mixture or not. The erratic behavior of the paper in front of the muffler suggests erratic airflow thru the engine.

 

Try the paper near the front of the carb and see if there is any blow back into the paper .

[Dgibby 32]

Well I just ordered a new coil for it. Hopefully I can get around to the carburetor this week. Save Old Iron the engine only has 115 hours on it. Do you think it could still be a valve problem?

[Geno 1,928]

This is starting to sound a lot like the parts swapper mechanics in my town!  Is anybody reading the part about no fuel in the filter?    

Edited October 6, 2014 by Geno

[Dgibby 32]

Lol! I'm starting with the carburetor. I ordered the coil because I'm not to sure of the repair I made in the wire. Also upon further research the tractor is actually a 1993.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Save Old Iron the engine only has 115 hours on it. Do you think it could still be a valve problem?

Ahhhh ... that would make life easier if problems would happen on a timeline !!

 

Are you saying this is a rebuilt engine with 115 hours or the original 20+ year old engine has only seen 115 hours use?

 

The "paper trick" is a valid, time tested diagnostic given you probably don't have an ignition analyzer. An ignition analyzer will easily differentiate  burn line turbulence caused by a mechanical issue from burn line elevation due to a lean cylinder charge. For the average home mechanic, the "Test Don't Guess" philosophy can only be taken so far. limited access to diagnostic tools. etc.

 

And by the way, "start by rebuilding the carburetor" really boils down to a guess anyway, right?

Educated guess maybe, but a guess none the less. No test has been applied to the carb and no one has yet PROVEN the carb is bad.

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably the biggest proponent of testing before replacement on this site. I also realize what position most folks are in due to limited access to diagnostic tools.

 

To my comment regarding the valves...  gas or not, ignition or not, the engine should be at least an efficient and repeatable AIR PUMP. Even if there is no ignition or "power stroke" due to lack of spark, the engine still aspirates air in thru the carb and pushes it out the exhaust port to the muffler. The paper should dance with regularity just on the air pump action alone. The exhaust is not "exploded"  out the muffler by the detonation of the air fuel mixture - it is pushed out by the piston action. 

 

Your coil issue? Yes, the coil could have suffered internal shorting if the coil continuously fires into a lean mixture. Any time the air fuel mixture is lean, the coil has to keep building up excessively high voltage across the spark plug to ignite the poor mixture, This leads to very high secondary voltages at the magneto which can break down the insulation of the secondary (spark plug wire) side of the magneto. Internal shorts in the windings can definitely lead to misfires. Again, if no diag scope is available, you are forced to act on an  EDUCATED guess. This is not rocket science once you understand the basics.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

The issue with non filling gas filters is becoming more and more common. The effect you see is the filter element allowing gas to easily flow thru just one small area on the surface of the filter media. The gas does not have to seek out any additional pores in the media paper as the small flow needed to run this engine flows easily thru a very small portion of the media. This is the fluidic equivalent of an electrical short circuit - fluids taking the path of least resistance.

 

One easy trick to try is holding the filter outlet in a vertical position above the filter inlet. The gas entering the inlet will find it easier to push air out of the filter as the gas fills the filter. If the filter media is inconsistent in its ability to pass fluids, the filter may never fill completely.

 

Is it a bad filter or possibly a weak fuel pump - test them!

 

Disconnect the outlet of the fuel pump, crank the engine and discharge the fuel into a canister. If you are seeing large amounts of fuel exiting the tubing into the canister, the fuel pump and filter have passed the test.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[Dgibby 32]

Thanks Save Old Iron. And yes it's a 20 year old tractor with 115 original hours. It was my Brother inlaws Farthers he bought new.

[rmaynard 14,895]

A 20 year old tractor with 115 hours on it has been sitting longer than it has been running. If it has been sitting with ethanol gas in the carburetor for more than a couple of months without running, I'd put my money on the carburetor. Remember the old saying K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). Stop over-thinking the problem. Clean the carburetor thoroughly, paying close attention to the main jet needle valve (if it has one), and go from there.

Edited October 7, 2014 by rmaynard

[rmaynard 14,895]

I'm going to take the carburetor off one day this week and give it a good cleaning. Do I need to get a gasket kit? Not sure what I need to pull the carb.

Get the model number off the carburetor, or the spec number from the engine and get a carburetor kit, and a carburetor to engine gasket. That kit only includes the bowl gasket and splash shield along with the float valve and seat. Not much of a kit, but it's a start. Get some carburetor cleaner to soak it in overnight.

Edited October 7, 2014 by rmaynard

[Dgibby 32]

A 20 year old tractor with 115 hours on it has been sitting longer than it has been running. If it has been sitting with ethanol gas in the carburetor for more than a couple of months without running, I'd put my money on the carburetor. Remember the old saying K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). Stop over-thinking the problem. Clean the carburetor thoroughly, paying close attention to the main jet needle valve (if it has one), and go from there.

Lol! When I picked it it hadn't been started in 6 1/2 years.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Can you remember if the engine ran properly 6 years ago?

 

While you wait for the carb kit, maybe check valve clearances? Also a zero $$ check.

 

Effective troubleshooting also includes knowing what is NOT contributing to the problem.

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

How about the vent in the gas cap, followed by a look at the inside of the tank filter screen. New gas line. I like to do the hole fuel system....