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bmsgaffer

Stick with the P220, or repower?

Which engine?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Which engine would you choose?

    • Stick with the P220 and hope it never needs a rebuild.
      21
    • Put in the fresh K341
      11
    • Trade the P220 for a P216 to save fuel and lessen chances of valve issues.
      1


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bmsgaffer

As you may have seen, i recently acquired a slightly rusty 520. I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest, just looking for honest opinions from those of you that have owned several of these engines.

 

I am looking to combine it with my C-165 to make a blackhood 500 series. I have read a lot about the Onan issues and so my initial reaction is to sell it and put in the K341 that I am having completely rebuilt.

 

I am stuck though with how much I love the sound of that Onan. SO i am putting it out to vote. This tractor will be my heavy duty snow plow machine and mow every once in a while. I will not have a large collection of tractors at my house (small shed and garage) so I am looking to make one tractor do it all. I do not have any high horsepower requirements like a 2 stage blower or 60" deck.

 

Considering:

  • Fuel Usage (BIG point with only a 3 gallon tank!)
  • Complexity
  • Reliability
  • Power
  • Cool Factor

What motor would you use?

Edited by bmsgaffer
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JERSEYHAWG /  Glenn

I only have 3 tractors,, so far. If I was limiting myself to 1 to do my lawn and yard chores "cart" and snow blowing the driveway.

I would stick with a kohler,,,,,16hp size minimum. Bigger is more desireable. Since your going to use it all the time, no restoring or refreshing. I would pay the money for the cleanest, lowest hour unit I could find. Buy that and be done.

Footnote for the onan crowd. One day, dont know when, you will see me drag a onan breathing 520 home with me.

Allways wanted to try one, the onan scares me.

Glenn

Edited by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn
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Theroundhousernr

  NO need to be scared of an Onan. These horrors need to be put to rest. Bottom line is these Onan's require PM to last the long hall. They where made to be serviced/rebuilt for commercial applications. Sure, you dont change oil, let the engine fins get clogged to S***, let them sit for years with bad gas , dont change filters....sure these are terrible engines I guess. Treated in that manner , any engine will be.

 

  These are filtered, pressure lubricated motors, and built to last.  Within in 5 miles of my house I have counted 4 520H wheel horses that are their weekly mowing machines, yard tugs, and snow removal machines. Putting in reliable service year after year. I run no funny additives in my tank , just non ethenol fuel that I run in all my machinery. It starts every week, no surging to speak of. No smoke/ or knocks and is approaching 1100 hrs.

 

  No one seems to mind the infamous " Kohler Knock" or rods making windows in the block. Numerous posts in the engine sections of carbs blowing gas. Or missing and carrying on. Repair costs are about the same when you figure part for part with kohler. And dead on if not cheaper than the twin kohlers. Oh and the valves are adjustable on the Onan unlike the kohler kt17.

 

  I am not trying to sound rude or nasty, just stating how I see it. There is plenty of issues I see pop up with Onan, Tecumseh and Kohler. Some how Onan developed a reputation of the black sheep and Tecumseh for that matter. It reminds me of growing up and the reputation my brother paved for my last name...... lol

 

  Get a good running unit and take care of it and you may be surprized. I am not trying to force Onan on anyone. I like them all. My Raider 10 with the Tecumseh has been on my nerves lately though but I will get it all worked out.

 

 My opinion is you seem to have a sound running engine with some dirty carb issues. Easily fixed and then you can really enjoy that sound the Onan pumps out. :handgestures-thumbupright:  You will be happy to pay for the extra gas and we are only talking a few bucks more a week really. :greetings-wavingblue:  :eusa-shhh:

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Theroundhousernr

PS the P220 and P216 are the same block with different crank, rods, cam, and carb. The feared valve seat issue could be found in the p216 as well. I look at it as,the hardest thing my tractor will see is the 48 inch deck. So the p220 will work alot less to power that deck then the p216 = less heat and wear on the engine.

 

 

  My answer to the poll is give the p220 a good once over and take care of it. :handgestures-thumbupright:

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bmsgaffer

Thanks for the opinions!

 

The only thing that really scares me about the Onan is the cost of rebuilding. While they may be dollar for dollar on the TWIN Kohlers, they are more than a 2:1 vs the Kohler singles. And I am on a LOW "hobby budget". While I may have the talent, I do not have the tools or time to do serious engine work myself so it will all end up going to a local shop in the end. Preventative maintenance I can handle.

 

The onan does sound amazing, which is why I will probably spend some time cursing at it and fixing all the wiring so I can play with it this winter.

 

This may just become my C-205HD...

 

Anyone else have experience with the K341 vs P220?

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slammer302

I think it will come down to what ur planning on using it for

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jackhammer

Sounds like you got an idea there , good luck following it thru

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Geno

Some interesting thoughts here, I am wondering about a repower also.  :)

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19richie66

If you can get the onan running good, why not use it till it quits? Keep it serviced as normal and run it.If it never quits, good thing. If it did ever die, you would have a fresh kohler waiting on the shelf. You are going to have to fix the wiring either way. I say use it.

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baerpath

May as well use it till it pukes, might not be that long but you could be surprised.

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Geno

I'll tell you one thing, I mowed everything with my new one today and it took almost twice the gas.  I put a half a tank in it and had to stop halfway through, it was empty.  That thing is a thirsty little devil,  :scared-eek:   and the Cub Cadet Commercial I've used the past few years has a 24HP Kohler Command!  

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km3h

Why even get a 520 if you feel that way. A 416 with a Kohler engine is what you should have if you don't like the ONAN. It will do the same job of cutting grass and blowing snow. I have three tractors with Onan engines and I will keep all three. The key is maintenance. Done properly and continually they should last as long as any other engine.

 

As for fuel consumption, I personally don't mind that the Onan uses more. Fuel consumption has never been an issue where my tractors are concerned. Average gas here has been about $3.45 a gallon over the last several years, although it has gone down to about $3.15 lately. Fuel consumption only matters to me when I drive my car because I put millage on it. Tractor only runs a few hours a week.  

 

I never had a 520 until recently. In fact I never saw one until I went to the show last year. I had heard they were beast and I thought they were a lot bigger than the 400 series. Well they are not. Aside from extra additions added attractions, such as all those pretty gages we all like to stare at, a bit larger tire and a swept front axle, which is heavier, they really are the same as the 400 series. 

 

So in closing, please feel free to contact me with a PM and I will trade you a 416 or a 417 with Kohler engines for your 520 with the Onan as long as it is in proper running condition at the time of trade and near equal in hours used.

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Geno

I never had a 520 with a deck let alone the 60" till a few days ago.  I really did enjoy having a steering wheel again and not having to push the levers to go all the time. I like the cut and the tractor, I was just shocked at the gas gauge.  You have to remember before the 28 I only had one 3 months ago, I'm still a newbie Nick!   :laughing-rolling:

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bmsgaffer

Let me start by saying that I did not mean to offend anyone. 

 

Why even get a 520 if you feel that way. 

I was looking for just a parts 520. Swept front axle gives me gear reduction steering and tighter turning radius, that's what I have been in search of. I found this one in not great shape, just expecting to salvage the frame/steering components but I got to it and it is a low-ish hour machine (~680 hrs) and is mechanically in much better shape than I expected. That's why I had such a conundrum, I was not expecting the engine to be any good based on the ad.

 

All the inside sheetmetal (battery tray and everything around that) is practically rotted out. This will need some major surgery and I have good parts from a C series that I am going to put together with it instead of buying yet another parts tractor.

 

 

A 416 with a Kohler engine is what you should have if you don't like the ONAN. It will do the same job of cutting grass and blowing snow. I have three tractors with Onan engines and I will keep all three. The key is maintenance. Done properly and continually they should last as long as any other engine.

 

I have a K341 being rebuilt already that came from a C-165. I was enamored by the Onan's sound, smoothness, and power. But I have never experienced a twin of any variety before much less the mother of all twins the P220. So that why I am asking for public opinion.

 

You are right about the gas usage not being very significant in the whole scheme of things. It was less about cost for me as it was how much time I can get running it from a single tank of gas. The fuel tanks on the WH's are pretty small in comparison to many others of the time. I plow lots of driveways and its helpful to stay out longer.

 

If you weren't in Maryland I would seriously consider doing an engine swap with you!  :handgestures-thumbupright: But I dont think you would want the rest of the guts of the tractor. The whole tower needs replacing and the side covers need to be de-rusted and painted. It doesn't smoke tick or knock at all, starts right up.

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Forest Road

I had a 520 with about 100 hours. The carb was shot, thank you EPA ETHANOL lovers. The carb was $200+ so I swapped the tractor w my dealer for a 175 hour 314h. The only needs for 20hp are the two stage blower and 60" deck.

When in doubt remember this "You just can't kill a Kohler single!"

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Tankman

With the yada, yada 'bout Onans, I thought never.

 

I then found a rusty beat up '90 520-8. Lots of work and, yes, it is a gas hog.

 

With time to spare, I've always PM'd the Horses to the hilt. Why not?

 

The '90 520-8 is now, don't know why, my favorite Horse. The rest of the herd gets lots of rest.

 

Before

post-8021-0-03450600-1411783330_thumb.jp

After

post-8021-0-76361300-1411783393.jpg

Edited by Tankman
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Geno

You made her a beauty Tank, love the new decals too.  :text-+1:   :text-+1:

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Tankman

You made her a beauty Tank, love the new decals too.  :text-+1:   :text-+1:

 

Thanks Geno! The '90 520-8 was a steal now all I need to do is change the air screen center; TORO.

 

The center of the steering wheel too; TORO. The original decals had to go.

 

Guess I'm prejudice, gotta be a Stallion!

 

The Onan does drink a lot, a thirsty engine but, I like it!

 

Thanks for the +++'s!

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km3h

Check on EBay. You can find that whole tower there. Trying to fix it is a no brainer if it is rotted. Now if it is just rust, have it blasted and it will be good as new. I have a 417-A that whole area looked like a rust bucket. Sand blasted it and some paint and good as new.

 

If you change the engine to a Kohler, then most of the gages will most likely be useless.

 

With over 600 hours, you should remove the engine and all the tin on both the engine and the tractor. Power wash it using lots of de-greaser. You won't believe the crap you will find on that tractor. Also Onan recommends that you de-carbon the engine and reset the valves every 500 hours.

 

The biggest problem with the Onan is caused by heat. The best way to prevent overheating is a good cleaning from time to time. Part of the joy of owning these machines to me is having some wrench time as well as seat time. I like tinkering with them. Of course I am retired and have some spare time on my hands. 

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bmsgaffer

To all of you onan owners, on average, how many hours do you see on a full tank of gas?

 

Has anyone compared the P216 or kohler twins to the P220? Or howabout a big block single? I havent been operating my 14 horse long enough to get a good idea and my 10 horse was long ago and is a 'small block'.

 

I guess my point is that if i can see 3 hours a tank from a K341 and less than 2 from a P220, then that's a HUGE difference. If its only like 15 minutes difference its not worth considering.

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bmsgaffer

Check on EBay. You can find that whole tower there. Trying to fix it is a no brainer if it is rotted. Now if it is just rust, have it blasted and it will be good as new. I have a 417-A that whole area looked like a rust bucket. Sand blasted it and some paint and good as new.

 

If you change the engine to a Kohler, then most of the gages will most likely be useless.. 

I already have the tower from a C series, this is probably going to be a resto-mod since it will be my worker. Im thinking of going with the blackhood hood and tower and 500 frame and mechanics.

 

If I keep the onan you have my word I will tear it down a little and make sure shes healthy. I know the Kohler is healthy. C-205 or C-165HD?

 

 

Yea unfortunately I have a 17 month old little boy, and one on the way and I work 50 or so hrs a week so it ends up being a very small percentage of my time (and money) I am able to devote to my tractors. I also have some deadlines to finish up some work on the house before the next baby comes along. But I still love my wheel horses and spend whatever time I can working on them or with them.

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Geno

To all of you onan owners, on average, how many hours do you see on a full tank of gas?

 

Has anyone compared the P216 or kohler twins to the P220? Or howabout a big block single? I havent been operating my 14 horse long enough to get a good idea and my 10 horse was long ago and is a 'small block'.

 

I guess my point is that if i can see 3 hours a tank from a K341 and less than 2 from a P220, then that's a HUGE difference. If its only like 15 minutes difference its not worth considering.

 

I think you're gonna see a huge difference. I'll try to start with a full tank next time out and get a better idea instead of filling halfway through.    :popcorn:

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Forest Road

I already have the tower from a C series, this is probably going to be a resto-mod since it will be my worker. Im thinking of going with the blackhood hood and tower and 500 frame and mechanics.

If I keep the onan you have my word I will tear it down a little and make sure shes healthy. I know the Kohler is healthy. C-205 or C-165HD?

Yea unfortunately I have a 17 month old little boy, and one on the way and I work 50 or so hrs a week so it ends up being a very small percentage of my time (and money) I am able to devote to my tractors. I also have some deadlines to finish up some work on the house before the next baby comes along. But I still love my wheel horses and spend whatever time I can working on them or with them.

Congrats on the kids! I have 3 boys 10 months - 6 years. My horses are at the inlaws vacation home. Simply put if I do have a problem with the mag 14 I have a carb kit and spare fuel pump on hand. It's 30-40 mins to do a rebuild and I'm on my way. $20 or so for the kit. The Onan carb is a PIA to get at and the parts are ridiculously expensive.

Time is precious.

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Save Old Iron

To all of you onan owners, on average, how many hours do you see on a full tank of gas?

 

I guess my point is that if i can see 3 hours a tank from a K341 and less than 2 from a P220, then that's a HUGE difference. If its only like 15 minutes difference its not worth considering.

I know Kohler published data on gallons per hour fuel consumtion for K series. Im sure Onan has them somewhere too.

 

For a quick "back of the envelope" calculation, compare the volume of the K cylinder with the combined volume of the Onan cylinders and calculate a percentage difference. The difference will come close to the gas consumption difference since the air / fuel mixture remains the same for the two models of engines.

Edited by Save Old Iron

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ericj

my 73 16 auto is just about as much of a gas hog as my onans but i don't work it any more i run my onan's at about 3400 rpm as compared to wot. yea i've follow all the discussions about wot or not but it does seem to use less gas at 3400 rpm. but now if conditions call for it i will run wot. my main worker is a 92 416-H

 

 

 

eric j

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