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Redline69

416-H with hot/sticking PTO pulley

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Redline69

Hey Crew,

 

Problem started with the ol 416-H today. Dad ( who no longer understands why things break or wear out..ahem) was using the machine today. He wasn't on it long, and came over to tell me the PTO wasn't working anymore. It's a manually engaged PTO. But sure enough, it wouldn't turn. The PTO pulley was hot,and I could see it was even starting to get blued in spots from the heat. I released the tensioners a bit,and it would turn, but it was still slow,and squawking. Obviously a bad bearing in there.

 

 In 20 years since we've had the 312-8, the 518-H,and this 416..I have to say this is a first.  Seems all these machines have similar PTOs.

 

 Is this just a bearing issue, or is there some clutch plates in there that are worn too?

 

 I think the machine has about 1300 hrs on it now.

 

 Not looking forward to this, but could someone point me in the right direction on this repair?

 

 Appreciate it.

 

 Frank

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boovuc

It is most likely the bearing(s) and your correct in that they seldom go south but it does happen occasionally. 

Go to Partstree.com and put the Model year 416 in the search box and look up the diagram for the PTO/Clutch assembly.

For a 1991, the needle bearing is Toro Consumer# 106769 and the race bearing is Toro Consumer# 6658. You won't know what went wrong until you open it up. I would almost bet the farm the needle bearings are shot but don't order a thing until you have it opened. (The heat and lose metal could have scored some innner components). Here is the link to my 1991 416 clutch/PTO assembly. They are very easy to open and diagnose.

 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=toro_consumer&mn=31-16O803%2C+416-8+Garden+Tractor%2C+1991+%28SN+1000001-1999999%29&dn=3314-853-_8530100-00047

 

(Copy and paste in your browser).

 

Let us know what you found!

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Don1977

I would think it's the front ball bearing or the out side c-clip has come off the short shaft that provides the pressure to the clutch. My interior roller bearing lasted 36 yearsand was still working I could see a little wobble with it out of gear. Then if it has never been serviced in 1300 hours all bets are off everything inside could be worn out.

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Redline69

Thanks for the replies,and thanks for the parts break down diagram boovuc.

 

 OK, had a chance to take it off and have a gander at it tonite.

 

 Bearings seem to be OK.

 

 BUT..

 Part #43 Facing Clutch, that goes back against the engine.

 

 What is the surface of that supposed to be like? Is it supposed to be like a clutch plate material? Because the pulley is riding on that,and it's right down to the cast iron. I'm assuming this is why it was hot?

 

 

  Thoughts?

Edited by Redline69

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Don1977

That's it. Mine tossed out pieces of the clutch lining some where after 15 years or so.

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Redline69

OK,

 But I see from the parts diagram, that part, #43 the Facing Clutch..is not available new?

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boovuc

That's great about the bearings. The clutch surface though not available anymore through Toro a clutch lining kit is available from other sources. McMaster Carr and MSC to name a few.

 A quick search here on RS gave up this link. Hope it helps!

 

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Redline69

 OK,

 

  Found a page on the McMaster-Carr site that sells brake and clutch lining materials.

 

 http://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=tsyxua

 

 Not sure which one to use. I did read on your link boovuc, that it is about .125 thick.

 But fabricating a new clutch ring,and somehow fastening it to the old plate...while possible, seemed improbable.

 

 

 Then I found in a Toro search.

 http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Transmission-Brake-Clutch/946650/1849806?replacedManufacturerPartNumber=toro+114881

 

 Looks like the proper unit.

 Might be the easiest route.

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boovuc

That is the easier route and the number matches the lining on the old PTO's, (114881). It's a salty price and it is out of stock until the end of the month to the first week into October.

I have dealt with Repair Clinic for appliance parts and they are good. i hope that it is truly just temporarily out of stock and that just isn't a standard fill in line for something that may take forever.

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608KEB

PTO clutch plated #4365 toro

Edited by 608KEB

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bitten

It might be easier to find a used PTO bell with a good clutch facing on it. When you do get the parts you need make sure everything is adjusted properly before you use it.  Good Luck

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Redline69

Howdy,

 

You mean try and get ahold of a used cutch bell,and facing clutch?

 

 I dunno. I've had mixed results with used parts. This 416 cuts a lot of grass around here. We plan on keeping it for a long while yet. I think a new part is in order here.

 

Yesterday, I refered that part number to a local dealer,and he seemed to be pretty sure he could get one on short order. But since we're in Ontario, there is exchange, shipping etc..plus the drive to the dealer to get it. *shrug* Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet to get'er done.

 

 As I said before, the bearings seem OK. I think I can sneak a bit of grease into the stub shaft ball bearing. The needle bearing looks good,and I'll just lay a nice bit of grease in there before I put it together. Before that, should I go over the back of the pulley with a flap wheel before putting it back on? clean up and scuff it out a bit?

  

 Thanks.

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