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RickJ

C-165 engine mounting

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RickJ

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I have a C-165, pretty much a bare bones restoration project ((frame, trans, sheet metal (most)), and am having trouble with the engine mounting.  The frame has the rubber isolated engine mounting bracket (see attachment).  I found a 16 hp Kohler engine I would like to bolt in, but it look like it has a different/larger oil pan.  The engine might have been removed from a Cub Cadet, according to the engine seller. Mount holes on the base of this engine are approximately 6 1/4 wide, 10 5/8 long, and measure approx. 12 3/8 diagonally.  The mount holes don't match to my mounting plate.  This running engine seems pretty nice for $300.  A different oil pan, maybe?  Fabricate a mount bracket to fit the drive belt, etc? 

I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the mounting and oil pan configurations/sizes!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, comments or advice!!

 

Rick

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Molon_Labe

If you read this post it explains the different oil pan configurations on the Kohler big blocks.

 

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SousaKerry

You will either have to remove the shaker plate and solid mount the engine, or find another engine with the correct block(not easy to find.)  These shaker plate tractors were only made from 78?-84 or so, the later C-1X1 and all of the C-1X5 series tractors but a word of caution the C-175 and C-195 are different slightly.

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RickJ

Thanks, Sousakerry!

 

I'm going to go back to the vendor and take several photos of the engine; maybe I'll be able to get some more specifics and stt if it will bolt up to the frame without the shaker plate.

I appreciate your response!

 

Rick

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Racinbob

Check out that post on the different blocks/oil pans. If the motor you're looking at is the style that bolts directly to the frame check for a couple of tapped holes in the bottom. Those two holes and the flange holes on the opposite side will be your bolt spacing. It bolts in using two of the flanges and two bolts from under the frame into the two tapped holes. Once the pictures are posted things can be verified.

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RickJ

Thanks, Racinbob!

 

The guy with the motor closed at two today and I couldn't get there in time to take pictures with my good camera ... I'll be there Monday morning and get photos from all angles which will give me a better understanding of what I need to do to mount this heavy chunk of iron.  Hopefully, they will show all you experts on this powerplant what I plan to use on my C-165.  I'd like to use the shaker plate because it's kind of unique ... but I guess I could always save that configuration for when the correct engine makes itself available.  Until then, back to cleaning wheels and replacing pulley bearings and other mundane stuff!  Thanks for your input!!!  Pictures will be posted when I get them!

 

Rick

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Racinbob

You're welcome Rick. There's nothing wrong with using that shaker plate mount but personally I don't care for them. On the one I had it caused more vibration and the engine shook when I shut it down. That was a 14hp. The other down side to me was that the different oil pan reduced the oil capacity by 1/2 quart and I liked the larger capacity. I thought about changing the pan but couldn't do that because the block is different. Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

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RickJ

post-10699-0-71370100-1405807436.jpgpost-10699-0-23139900-1405807766.jpgOK

 

I took a few photos of the 16 hp engine for sale; hopefully one of you experts can give me some mounting options ... a different oil pan or whatever.  It looks like I don't have the option of using different holes other than the four "ears" which aren't threaded.  I have a feeling I may have to pass on this engine for my C-165, but I'm grateful for all your suggestions and information you all have already given me.

 

RickJ

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Racinbob

No, the 'ears' won't be tapped. The threaded holes aren't there but you could get an oil pan for that one that would work. I don't know if there's enough 'meat' in the pan to allow you to drill and tap some. It's possible that there is but you'd need to pull it and look inside. I'll bet somebody here knows that answer.

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oldredrider

That engine will work on your C-165. You will have to remove the shaker plate completely. Don't know if originality matters... Solid mount the flywheel side of engine directly to the frame (mounting holes are probably already there) and us "J" bolts on the output side of the engine.

The oil dipstick mount may have to be changed to give the necessary clearance.

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Racinbob

I would be a bit concerned about the flanges breaking doing that since it is cast. If you've done it with no problems then it must be fine. I'm curious if that pan is the same one used when the holes are drilled and tapped. It would need extra material on the inside to get enough depth. Maybe Kohler used the same pan but just skipped the drill/tap process?

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can whlvr

one other thing to remember is if it was from a cub the crankshaft could be 1 inch,wheelhorses 10 to 16 hp were 1 1/8,so you would need the bushing used on 8hp motorsfor the pto ,not a deal breaker but just something to remember

Edited by can whlvr

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RickJ

Racinbob and oldredrider - 

I'll need to do some more measuring on the frame ... I really can't take the oil pan off the engine since I haven't bought it yet.  I'll keep you posted on my progress and my decision on whether or not to buy ...

Thanks again!

RickJ

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RickJ

Can whlvr -

 

I actually did measure this one; it's 1 1/8, so I'm ok there!  Thanks for the reminder!

 

RickJ

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Racinbob

I know you may not want to consider this option but curiosity got me to checking. I looked at a bunch of oil pan pictures, many of which were for Wheel Horses, and the location of the blind holes isn't where it would penetrate the innards of the motor. It looks like it could be that the holes for the block to pan bolts are just drilled all the way through. I don't have a big block K series to look at in person but if this is the case it would be a real easy fix to enable you to use that motor. How about someone chiming in that has one to verify.

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Callen

One of the vendors on here could probably help get the right oil pan for it.

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Racinbob

Yup. Joe's Outdoor Power has them. From looking at his' the blind holes are definitely just the block bolts drilled all the way through. Or you could drill from the bottom and possibly not have the hole all the way through. Either way an easy fix. Rick, if that motor runs good I'd say it's a very good price. It even has the high mount starter. Years ago I bought one from Grainger that had the low mount starter. It worked fine but the starter sure cramped the battery but I believe your battery is up where my gas tank was.

Edited by Racinbob

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RickJ

Racinbob and Callen - -

 

Well, if the engine's still there, I guess I'll take a shot at making an offer on it; I doubt I would lose any $ on it if it didn't work on the C-165 and I had to resell it!  It may take a while for me to get around to the installation; I have fallen behind in landscape upkeep and I need to get my curb appeal out of the danger zone, ha ha!  All you guys in this forum are awesome, and I hope to be able to reciprocate by helping someone else when I gain some more knowledge.  Thanks again!

 

RickJ

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Martin

the only other thing i would check out is the drain plug on the bottom interfering with the frame as it sits right in that area. the mounting ears might raise it up enough, but i would check before bolting it down tight on the frame.....

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Racinbob

Good point Martin. I forgot about that. it looks like the plug on the motor in question here may be an issue. Rick, all you have to do is get a different plug for it that is flush or close to. You don't use that drain anyways.

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RickJ

Good point ... a plug with a hex key or 3/8 square drive should put that drain plug pretty flush to the bottom of the pan.

 

RickJ

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