Liquid fertilizer sprayer

[Ken in Iowa 0]

Well I just broke my old pull behind broad cast fertilizer spreader, (I think I can fix it), but I'm considering replacing it with a pull behind liquid spayer.

Are there any advantages or disadvantages to using liquid? For some reason the "grass always looks greener" when these companys use their liquid fertilizer on the neighbors, then what I do on mine?

I've never minded using a broad cast spreader. I have always put it on using a lighter setting, making numerous passes in different directions until the proper amount is applied, and I have never had a problem with striping of the yard, but just would like a little greener looking yard.

Are they messy, dangerous, a maintence nightmare, cheaper to use, who makes a good one. What's your opinion's.

Thanks,

Ken In Middle Iowa.

[Jim_M 178]

I have a tow behind sprayer. I'm not sure right now who makes it, but Agri-Fab comes to mind. I mainly use it for spraying weed spray. I have used it for liquid fertilizer, but have gone back to broadcasting granular.

The liquid fertilizer gives you a "quick green up", but it doesn't last. I don't think it feeds the roots of the grass as well, and you have to spray once a month to keep that green. That ends up costing you twice as much as granular. It's also pretty easy to burn your grass with the liquid, and once you burn it, it stays brown all year. If you have anything go haywire, like a nozzle clogging and letting the liquid run out in a stream instead of spraying out, it can actually kill the grass, and make the soil unsuitable for growing grass for about a year.

I use cheap menards or lowe's brand 10-10-10 fertilizer without weed killer, and broadcast it 3 times a year. I spray a mix of Trimec Plus and grub killer twice a year to kill the weeds and japanese beetles. So far that's given me the best and most cost effective results of anything I've tried. As an added bonus, I don't have moles in my yard, but the neighbors seem to have twice as many as they used to. :banghead:

[oldandred 15]

I have one i got at northern for I think right at 100.00 30 gal can use a wand or spray like the big tractors mine i strap to my one arm fel and spray i use it all the time even for weeds bugs vols and what ever its 12 volt and hooks right to the battery and away I go

[wh500special 2,053]

I have millions of Dandelions on my property, so I was curious about this same topic about a year ago. So I price Chemlawn for my property ($500 per application) and decided I couldn't lose by looking at a tractor drawn sprayer.

I have a 30 gallon, 2.5 gpm unit I picked up at a local farm store for $250. It's a "Fimco"brand sprayer and seems to be put together nicely enough. i think the quality and performance of all of these sprayers will be about equal amoung brands since all the different manufacturers seem to by buying and assembling their units from the same parts (tank/pump/nozzles).

It also has a spray gun that is handy for blasting weeds in areas that the tractor won't reach (under trees) or in places I might flip over if I tried navigating there. I haven't used it yet with Roundup or Glyphosate, but I think the gun would be more handy when I am in "kill everything" mode.

Mine will spray about a 5' swath with its two nozzles. Go with the biggest pump you can since it seems that volume makes a huge difference in how quickly you can cover ground. My neighbor has a much smaller version than mine and he has to drive at a near crawl to get sufficient coverage.

I try to spray as early in the day as possible too before the breeze kicks up. The droplet size the sprayers puts out is very small and is carried by the breeze even on calm days.

For weed control I think they are pretty cost effective. Currently I am using Ortho weed-b-gone but that's only because I bought a bunch on clearance last winter. I have had OK results using 2,4-D from the farm store which is incredibly cheap and reasonably effective. But too much 2,4-D will kill everything...

Whatever you do, be sure to test your unit out on a small area and wait a few days to gauge the results in case you've mixed or applied wrong. Otherwise you run the risk of killing your whole yard. And since the typical WH drawbar is so close to the ground you may have to assemblt the sprayer's hitch upside down to get the height right so it sits level (depends on your sprayer of course).

Setup on mine was simple per the rudimentary manual that was included. To get a feel for how fast to drive and how wide of a spread you're getting just mist the chemical onto your driveway or gravel. if you're moistening everything in your path, you're good to go. If you're soaking things you might need to speed up. Seems like "mowing speed" with my unit is just about right.

Jim is right on with the fertilizer application (anybody else ever notice that Jim is usually right too?). Liquid fertilizers are cheap but they don't seem to have the staying power of granular. I think they are readily abosrbed by the leaves of the grass rather than actually getting into the soil as a granular does when it is dissolved by dew or rainfall. I can fertilize my yard with granular (I use 10/10/10 or 12/12/12 from the local grain elevator) in probably 1/4 the time it would take with a sprayer...I have a big Agri-Fab broadcast spreader and it will put the material down fast.

You can also get great off-season deals on granular fertilizers too. When the season is over at Lowes or Home Depot they usually elect to clear it out a deep discounts rather than store it for so long. If you have the space and budget, buy them out when the prices hit your price range. I have been able to capitalize onthis a few times and I buy anything they have available whether it is plain fertilizer or a weed/feed mix. Two season ago I bought over 100 small bags or Preen Weed and Feed for $1 apiece. Scotts stuff never seems to come down cheap though...

Cleanup with the sprayer is pretty easy. Mine has a plug on the rear that can be opened up to drain the tank. I then flush with lots of water and make sure to run clean water thru all the lines. I haven't had to winterize the thing before since I bought it this spring, but I plan to put some RV antifreeze through the pump when I am finished using it this season.

Storage can be awkward since the booms are kind of flimsy and the nozzels are way out on the ends. It is light enough to hang from a bicycle hook though which is where it will go at season's end this year.

I think the chemicals the commercial contractors use are unique to their businesses. And they are licensed to spray stuff that you and I cannot buy, so perhaps the efficacy is better too. I suspect that they have a lot more slow release Nitrogen in their mixes which may be something difficult to do (from a chemical decomposition standpoint) on a shelf packageed, sonsumer formulation. Which, of course, is where the green comes from.

So, to recap, they are great for weeds but only so-so for fertilizing. The liquid chemicals are cheaper on a $/acre basis for weed control so you can treat more often. Cleanup seems easy too.

If you have a desire to tame weeds, i can't see you going wrong with one of these.

Steve

[Ken in Iowa 0]

Thanks very much Jim, Steve and oldandred. That's just the kind of information I was hoping for.

You guys bring up some very interesting points on fertilization, which is what I mainly want to do. I'm presently using an Agri-Fab spreader, with the cheapest granular stuff I can buy from a Co-op, which is triple 13. It is quick and easy to spread, and it gives me good results for a fairly long period of time. I was just hoping to achieve the same darker green as the pro's, but I'll bet a liquid green, would be short lived for me, and the kind of chemicals they use is probably's not available for me to use.

I have been very lucky with weed control. I have been able to let my grass grow a little longer, 3" plus, and mow more often, which seems to overpower the weeds, shading them out and killing them. The few I get I just spray with a small gallon hand sprayer and the grass looks pretty nice. The little longer grass seems also to make a mini rain forest for the ground, and It dosen't dry out as quick as the neighbors. I do very little watering.

I'm going to do some shopping around this fall for some, end of the year sales on, spreaders, liquid and dry, and also chemicals, to just see what kind of deals are available. I have done some minor soil sampling around my house but still may not be putting the chemicals on heavy enough, and as Steve said, for what they charge, I can do a lot of experimentation.

Thank you again for taking time out of you busy days and giving me such good feed back. :banghead:

[wh500special 2,053]

Just another thought on the fertilizer thing...

Sometimes it is actually cheaper to buy the higher nitrogen containing fertilizers than it is to go with the general purpose triple 10, 12, or 13. You'll have to do the math for any individual scenario, but 20 pounds of 20-8-3 for example has the same amount of N as 40 pounds of 10-10-10. If you apply at the same N rate per square foot that bag of 20-8-3 can break even with the triple 10 at twice the price...

Yes, the Phosphorous and Potassium dispersion will be different, but it is the Nitrogen that gives you the green you're after...and your lawn WILL grow even if you never fertilize so the actual chemistry you use isn't really that important in many cases. Typically the bag instrustions on the higher Nitrogen stuff will recommend a much lighter application rate too.

Steve

[Ken in Iowa 0]

Steve,

Your comments on different fertilizers is one of the things I was thinking about when I commented about experimenting. My main fear has been, burning the yard beyond repair, but I don't believe I'm anywhere near that point, and I am very unsure how to test for that point. (dose that make any sense?) Many years back I made a real mess out of my yard, using a hand push drop spreader. I tried to make sure I spread it evenly, but I wound up with what looked like someone had tried to write their name in the yard. It took me the rest of the summer to try to correct that, and boy did the neighbors and the wife have fun with me. I even had brown, burned spots where I stopped and turned the spreader.

The triple 13 I'm now using has no recommendations on the amounts for application. The guy at the counter said, 10-12 lbs per 1000 sq, ft. I'm dividing up the amount, putting on 5 lbs (one bag) going in one direction, and another 5 lbs in the other direction. trying to make sure not to streak the yard. This has worked out very well for me as that's exactly two 50 lb bags, but it may be a little light on the 10 lbs per sq ft directions, and may be the reason my yard looks a little pale.

Based on your experiance, what do you think would happen if I put on 15 lbs per sq ft? Even 20 lbs. I'm not wanting to waste the fertilizer, but don't have an area that I can test using different amounts, easily, with out making a real mess.

I may be better off changing to something like 20-8-3, as you commented, but have troubles setting the drop size with different sizes of fertilizer with my spreader. Luckily, I have never experianced over fertilizing, but changes can take two weeks, before you see the results, of how good or bad you've done.

Your comments are much appreaciated.

[Curmudgeon 28]

One thing that everyone has overlooked is, you're all talking about chemicals. Something your grass was never meant to grow on. Even granular fertilizer is salt based, not exactly healthy for your grass.

Liquid fertilizer is VERY available. It's taken up into the grass almost immediately, giving it a great rush. VERY green. Kinda like heroin though, it's a short up and the grass needs another fix soon, or it goes into a downer. That's what companies like Chemlawn depend on. Once they got you, you're hooked, for without the fix, you loose the green.

Granular is less available, but over time will create an imbalance in the soil, tying up the nutrients that are there, making them unavailable, so once again, buy more fertilizer. Buy more. Buy more.

Compost is a great alternative, as are some natural fertilizers. Feed the soil, the soil will take care of the grass. Cut it high, leave the clippings. After all, what could be a better source of nutrients than the substance the nutrients are in!

Everyone who's ever walked on my grass said it was softest, most luscious.. anyone who ever ate anything from my garden, "that was the most tasteful....." So I go with nature, leave the chemicals to chemists.

Just a different take is all..............

[wh500special 2,053]

geez, I don't really know what the idea application rates should be. I usually follow what is on the bag, or lacking that, go lighter rather than heavier. i think if you did some experimentation you would be surprised at how much fertilizer your lawn can take without damage, but rememeber it can only get "so" green.

15-20 pounds per sq foot will kill it though! I think you mean per 1000 sq ft . With triple 13 I think you can easily get by with more (say up to 20), but you start running into diminishing returns once you pass whatever the recommended rate is.

Same thing goes for weeds...if it is recommended to mix 2 oz per gallon there is no reason to double that since you can only kill a weed once.

I never gave the max/min applicaton rates a whole lot of thought so not sure where you can learn more. I looked briefly and didn't find anything (I'll check again later) but it seems like I recall Purdue University (Go Boilers!) having an excellent lawn care/horticulture website that answers all kinds of turf questions. If I find it, or you find it, it should be posted here.

Barring that, local nursuries or sod dealers can probably guid you better than can I.

When I had a nice lawn at my former house I used a drop spreader most of the time. But I did cut my application rate back and applied in two passes arranged 90 degrees to each other. I never had stripes but have seen it many, many times. When I switched to a broadcast (rotary) type I continued to do the two pass thing but since it made me more comfortable. At this house I don't care enough to do it evenly so I just let it fly and do my best to have minimal overlaps or gaps.

After application the timing and amount of rain you receive will mean a lot as far as the efficiency of the fertilizer is concerned. If you get a gully washer the day after application you're going to lose a lot of fertilizer to run off. If it has a few days to soak in via slow rain or dew it is going to last longer.

The specific variety of your grass will also impact how "green" it is. Bluegrass has a much nicer, darker color than many of the other turf grasses. If what you have isn't really a dark plant in its baseline state then you're going to be fighting a battle that you may never win. Whatever the grass is at my house doesn't really "green up" that much even after fertilizing compared to the grass I had at my old house. I have a big lawn, so I have decided it doesn't matter that much to me as long as it is all approximately the same color.

Although I am starting to thin the weeds out some, my lawn is a beautiful Canary Yellow in the spring from all the dandelions! Very uniform too!

Sorry not to help more.

Steve

[Curmudgeon 28]

To know proper fertilization rates, you need a soil test. The results will give you a recommended rate of application.

Generally speaking, nitrogen goes on at 1 to 3 pounds per thousand square feet. So if you're using 10-10-10, you'll have to put on 10-30 pounds. Depending on your particular circumstances.

Phosphorus requirements are about .5 to 1.5 pounds, or 5 to 15 pounds of 10-10-10

Potassium requirements are something a little less than phosphorus.

Recommended rates will vary depending on the source, it's not an exact science. Fertilizer manufacturers will always recommend higher rates than general gardening books or horticultural sources.

Any fertilizer with NPK all the same is far from balanced. Most contain none of the lesser trace minerals all plants need to survive and flourish.

Don't forget about the PH. It can greatly affect the availability of nutrients. Percentage of organic matter also plays a role.

The only way to know is the a fore mentioned soil test. NOT one provided by fertilizer companies, but rather the local university or agriculture extension agent. Fill out the form telling them the type of fertilizer you plan on using, granular, liquid, or organic, and they will gear the recommendations towards your needs and intents.

[wh500special 2,053]

leave the chemicals to chemists.

Dale,

I wish you would post on EVERY topic...I always find something I like to read when you get your keyboard cranked up...

As a chemical engineer, I'd love to see an industrial chemical plant on every street corner but I agree that letting nature nuture things would be the most ideal when it comes to your lawn and garden. Although the chemical industry is highly regulated, what we do on a personal basis has got to have impacts on our groundwater, wetlands, and other facets of nature. Lawn chemicals and fertilizers are designed either to promote rapid growth or kill something, so errant application can always be a problem. The Dow plant down the road can't flush a drain cleaner, but you and I can spray anything we can buy without limits!

It's been a long time that I took any plant biology courses, but I think turf grasses tend to be one plant that does not sequester nitrogen from the air into the soil. As such they eventually deplete some of the excess nuitrients from the soil and become less healthy. Whether you replace what is lost through composting or fertilizing it certainly is helpful to augment the soil in some way.

As much as I hate to admit that chemicals aren't the long term answer I think I will have to agree that using natural means to nourish your grass is certainly preferable to the constant cycle of fertilization that most of us go through. As grass clippings and other organic matter decomposes it leaves behind the nuitrients the grass needs to grow. Fertilizing with nitrogen heavy compounds actually promotes faster decomposition of these crop residues but at the expense of giving the plants time to suck up the nutrients they need. Frequent applications do then obstruct the natural benefits you'd otherwise get from composting clippings.

I remember about 20 years ago when states started putting bans on grass clippings in landfills since we were running out of space. One of the benefits we saw was the development of mulching decks (like Toro's recycler) that were designed to cut the clippings fine enough to disappear into the turf for rapid decomposition. Acceptable results depended as much on frequent mowing as they did on leaving the grass taller so that a natural ecosystem could develop that helped to exclude weeds and promote rapid decomposition. The added mulch/compost also retained water which helped keep lawns greener....something fertilizer can't do. And, unlike longer clippings from a conventional deck, didn't mat down and prevent water from moving into the soil.

I know mulchers are still widely offered, but like other environmental movements it seems their luster has faded somewhat (remember the anti-stryrofoam and packaging minimization movements? Now Starbucks puts your coffee in a disposable cup AND wraps that cup with another piece of paper...) And, yes I know Bolens had a mulcher way back in the 50's or 60's too....way before everybody else. And before my time on this planet .

If I recall correctly, Ammonia (used to make fertilizers) is the seond-most widely produced chemical in the world. Pertroleum is of course #1. (I think Beer is #3....seriously). i wonder how much of that goes into suburban lawns?

I think where the commercial fertilizers and weed killers really shine is in getting "instant progress" and quick gains in lawn quality. If you can get an unruly lawn under control using chemical weapons and then start the transition to "natural maintenance" I think you'd be optimizing your success on all fronts.

I like this topic....I'm hoping perhaps it can continue with others' input and even be moved into "non-tractor" areas.

Steve

[Curmudgeon 28]

Steve,

You are correct, grass is not a legume, therefore it does not fix nitrogen from the air. It has to be taken up by the roots. It has to be replaced, grass clippings are an EXCELLENT source of nitrogen. Go figure. Grass is a heavy nitrogen feeder and a good source at the same time.

I'd have to pretty much agree with most of the other things you said as well. I grew up on a farm, I've sprayed all manner of herbicides, insecticides, and liquid fertilizers. I've broadcast and sidebanded in granular fertilizers.

I've since left the farm, wound up doing some gardening. The same way we farmed 25 years prior. Over time, I became more organic in my methods, and that's when everything got greener, lusher and tastier.

I'm no engineer nor expert, just talking from personal experience and the many books I've read. Yes, I pulled a couple books off the shelf for the fertilizer rates. Like I'd know that off the top of my head! LOL

[CasualObserver 3,406]

(I think Beer is #3....seriously). i wonder how much of that goes into suburban lawns?

Before... or AFTER consumption? :USA:

[wh500special 2,053]

Before... or AFTER consumption?

Me and my ambiguous pronouns....

I meant the Ammonia...but I'm betting a significant amount of "post processing" beer finds its way to the yard too.

Cute.

Steve

[CasualObserver 3,406]

:banghead: couldn't resist. sometimes I'm a five year old... I know it, I accept it, and move on!

To redirect the point back to the topic at hand....

I use granular, and always have. I prefer not to spray anything unless it's in my hand sprayer, but that's because I have a lot of perennial flowers in the yard, and they are often not very receptive to any "drift" that may occur. No matter how calm the wind is, there is still "drift", that is the mist droplets or over spray that gets into the air. I've burned my plants with my hand sprayer even. The granules are easier to control, and I can tarp the flowerbeds, spread away, and then lift my tarps and the granules don't end up in any undesired locations.

[CasualObserver 3,406]

I have never had a problem with striping of the yard, but just would like a little greener looking yard.

Ken, I forgot to add, you can get a greener lawn by just adding nitrogen. Up here in MN at the local Greenway (a farm co-op like FS for a lot of you) they sell a product called "Lawn Fuel" Comes in 40 lb bags, and is basically crushed corn. It's a by-product of ethanol production at a plant down the road about 15 miles. I don't remember the exact NPK-value on the bag, but I think it was about 17-0-0. (all Nitrogen, no P-(Phosphorus) , no K-(Potassium) ) It's granular, and you can lay it on pretty thick, and not burn the lawn. It really greens stuff up, and stimulates growth to choke out some weeds. Was cheap too... only about $7-8/bag last time I got some. Might have gone up since the corn prices went nuts... but I don't know... haven't priced it lately.

[GlenPettit 1,714]

The average 30 gal ele-pump pull-behind sprayer will cover exactly one acre, 42,000 sqft. Best times: at dawn and at dusk there is usually no wind; with the boom set low at 6" high, the 2 sprayer heads will easily cover 5' and in second gear it takes about 30 minutes to cover the one acre. Had to protect the 4' fixed boom (wished it folded up).

[Ken in Iowa 0]

What a wealth of information!!!!!

I think bottom line, I'm going to do another soil sample in the spring, after the winter has taken it's toll, and try and calculate the NPK amounts more accurately. I've never tried to adjust the PH of my soil and that may be some of my problems. I think everyone in our area has kentucky blue grass, and all the properties using professional sprayers, have a greener lawn, so I'm sure my fertilization has been on the light and safer side.

The group brings up some very interesting points. When I asked the question about liquid or granular, I'd forgotten about having problems in the past using a hand sprayer, where I killed a bunch of the wife's flowers, with a very small amount of overspray. It doesn't take more than a vapor to kill the wrong thing.

I've had very good luck using granular for fertilizing and just a small pump tank for weeds, and especially like the idea of using a tarp to help protect the flowers during the spreading of weed killers.

Where else would a person go to get this kind of personalized information. The amount of knowledge this group contains, and the freedom they use to spread it amongst the group is tremendous. I realize the subject got off the track of WH attachments, but I feel I got a world of information, and maybe some others in the group will also benifit from it. I hope I can repay the group, some way, in the future.

Thank you very much, and keep up the good work.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Ken,

Quoting your original post:

"Are they messy, dangerous, a maintence nightmare, cheaper to use, who makes a good one. What's your opinion's."

Might be just a personal opinion, but weren't pretty much all of the opinions expressed in this thread more or less related to the very questions you asked? hmmmmm? LOL Sure, we expanded, but those expansions were in fact reasons for this or that. If I ask, "a or b", I'd like to know WHY someone would choose a or b, not just a or b.

Jason brought up areas of concern I failed to. Others did the same. We have a few differing opinions, guess that's why we call them opinions, huh? LOL

How many here know corn is a grass? So Jason's suggestion of using a corn byproduct as a fertilizer is basically the same as leaving the clippings. Cool, huh? It's also very organic. Plus it would have many of those trace elements needed for the lushest of lawns.

Any corn would do it, cracked corn for feed would too. Just need a little time to break down. Assuming the local bird population didn't eat all your fertilizer first. Course, they would leave a different type of fertilizer behind....... Alfalfa meal also makes great fertilizer, it contains many many micro nutrients, as well as containing fair amounts of NPK.

[Jim_M 178]

Assuming the local bird population didn't eat all your fertilizer first. Course, they would leave a different type of fertilizer behind.......

Dale,

I'm sure you know this already, but most bird droppings are very high in Nitrogen. If you had chickens on the farm growing up, then I'm sure you remember putting the chicken manure on the garden in the late fall so it could mellow over the winter. If you put it on in the spring it would burn everything because of it's high nitrogen content.

Again, I'm a little off topic..........Or am I?

Jim

[Curmudgeon 28]

Nope, never had chickens, but yup, the nitrogen content is very high in what they leave behind. I guess it would all be about just how much you're talking. It also has one of the most RANK aromas in high quantities.

I prefer compost, everything mixed up and allowed to "mellow", as you say, over time. It's about as close to the perfect fertilizer as you'll find.