Suburban 400 Find in Florida

[C-101plowerpower 1,605]

can't you hang the hub and axle in an e-tank? 

 

 

Koen

[Racinbob 10,256]

Another good idea. It would be easy to do with just a small e-tank but I didn't want to mess around with making one.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Actually, the E-Tank may not work well in this situation.  The electrolysis works on line of sight between the cathode and anode...that is why the directions for setting one up mention multiple anodes around the bucket to attract the little rust nubbies from the part.  Negative flows to positive, but it has to be able to see it.  One other thing, you would want to be able to keep the axle seal out of the solution (the rubber)...not to mention the oil.  Once the axle and hub are free from the trans, the E-Tank becomes a viable option...but only if you have rust.  The E-Tank will not harm good metal. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Well, I've got the transmision all apart. I posted in the transmission section about it. I've got some issues but nothing that can't be fixed. I ended up cutting off the left axle. I gave the hub with the cut off axle stub in it to my son in law a couple days ago. They have a 20 ton press where he works. The mechanic said it probably took all 20 tons but it finally popped out with no harm to the hub. They were going to take it to a shop down the road whith a 50 ton press if theirs didn't do it. I got a pair of 1257 axle seals from Toro (83-2840). They are pricy but definitely built better the the originals if that matters. I don't know how long Toro will have them. I'll get axles, some axle bushings, a brake shaft seal and two bearings and I should be good to reassemble it. But not before I talk to Steve again. I want to do this right.      

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Bob...I assume that this is the thread you will be continuing for your rebuild.  The axles are in the mail...should get them Friday. 

[oneroadkingman 53]

nice find i like those run hood old tractors.maybe someday I will own one.I see you mentioned New York.I was born and raised up in Buffalo then moved to St Louis 20 years ago.

[Racinbob 10,256]

Thanks so much Steve (and Big Mike). Yes, I'll be using this thread. I deviated with a posting in the transmission section due to the content of the post but I should have left it here. As soon as I get the word back I'm going to post another source for the bronze axle bushings. I got them in just two days and he's great to deal with. A little cheaper than Motion but a bit more than ASB. Not that they are hard to find but just another option and this guy has about any size needed. As I wait for all the parts to get here I degreased the frame and then stripped the paint this morning. I used my old standbys Simple Green and then Easy Off. Easy Off works best on a warm to hot surface. No problem here in the Florida sun  . I decided to make an e-tank. Really more for the fun of it but it's nice for many of the parts. 

 

Rick, yes, I mentioned New York. The guy I got the tractor from is a snowbird from the upstate area. He was getting ready to head back when he listed it. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

As I wait for a few parts to arrive I was taking inventory of what I have to reassemble the transmission.  I’d like opinions on the input shafts I have.  The shaft teeth that engage the 3523 are definitely better on the top shaft than the bottom shaft. But notice the larger teeth that are clearly better on the bottom shaft. The tops are ‘squared’ off and not as ‘pointy’ as the top gear. I believe the better choice based on the teeth condition would be the top shaft because of the teeth that engage the 3523. Your opinion? The 3523 gear I have is NOS so it’s pristine. Now look at the shaft itself. The lower shaft is clearly better. I haven’t polished either of them up yet but the worn grove in the top shaft is fairly deep. It’s a situation where I would search for a better shaft/gear if needed but if I’ll be fine with one of these based on the fact that this tractor won’t be ‘worked’ I’d rather not spend the money. The lower shaft is the one that came out on my transmission. I hope I’m wording this so it makes sense

 

On another note. My wife went to the store this morning and, as usual, she asked me if i needed anything. I asked her to get some washing soda. She said "You mean baking soda?" "Nope, washing soda". She just said "OK, I'll try" and walked away with a funny look on her face. I didn't tell her it was for an e-tank. That would have confused her more.

[Racinbob 10,256]

Christmas in May!!!! The mailman arrived just as my wife got home. I've got a box of washing soda from the wife and the mailman brought the SK8 bearing and a pair of beautiful axles. Thanks again Steve and Big Mike! A quick trip to the drill press and I can put the transmission back together. Well, after I decide what to do about the input shaft in the above post.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Bob, I would go with the bottom input shaft.  That is a deep groove in the top one, and I would worry about it leaking.  With that NOS 3523 you have...you should be good in 3rd gear.  Don't throw out that grooved input shaft...it can be spray welded and turned down  to get rid of that groove. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Thanks Steve. That's what I'll do. I have the frame and transmission case all cleaned and the frame primed. Hopefully I'll be able to reassemble the transmission Wednesday and start making progress worthy of pictures. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

I rigged up a simple jig on the drill press and got the axles drilled out. I've never been accused of being too smart and I got reminded again this morning. The bronze bushings in the differential are shot. Now why didn't I check them out better before I ordered the axle bushings? Here's another option to get the bushings. Email Scott at bronzebushings@gmail.com and he will fix you up. He had the right length for the axles. I received them in just 2 days. I just ordered the diff bushings and the closest he had was 1 3/4" long. No problem. The bushings are the same price at $4.50 each. Shipping is $5.60 and if you're smarter than me (most likely) you won't have to pay that twice. My 1 1/8" socket was just the perfect OD for removing the old bushings. The axle that I cut off makes a great driver but it was easy to get them out. I had hoped to get the tranny back together this week but now I have to wait on the new diff bushings.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I like the jig Bob...very cool.  You will probably have to hone out those carriage bearings a little also.  Great pictures. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Thanks Steve. The 2x4 with the V groove is something that's lived next to my drill press for years. It seems like I'm always drilling something round. I just used an old axle to position the hole exactly the same and vice gripped the 1x2 on the end for a stop. If I get the bushings as fast as I did the axle bushings I should have the tranny and frame done by the end of next week. The tractor didn't entirely escape the cutting torch. The hood stand was attacked apparently to clear an air cleaner. It should be an easy fix though. I just got an email today saying that Terry has the decals on the way. Preliminary I know but I have the top plate and the control mount underneath ready to go and the decal has a (I think) neat little modification. I only have one control lever so I have been looking for some aftermarket controls that I could tear apart for the parts but no luck. I've decided to make two new levers using the original as a pattern. I see that Glenn sells the little plastic handles so I'll order a pair of them.  

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Your excitement is contagious...very cool.  If Glenn does not tell you this...soak the plastic handles in hot water for a few minutes (not long)...then place them in position...they will shrink on to the lever. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Good advice Steve. I haven't contacted Glenn yet. I want to wait until I see how my levers turn out.

[Racinbob 10,256]

I'll be bouncing around on all the little details for this resto. I'm still waiting on the diff. bushings and once I get those I'll have the tranny back together and the frame/tranny all painted up nice. I'm going to running out of days to paint so I know I won't get the sheetmetal final painted until less humid days return. Have I mentioned that I hate Florida summers?   I did get the decals I ordered from Terry today. What an incredible job!! Thanks Terry!! I have plans for the extras I ordered but that's down the road a ways. Take a look at the dash decal. Since my serial# was long gone I asked him to do this little modification. I likes lots!   I've got the channel bracket and cover plate all painted up in steel. The original face of the cover was pretty pitted and then there was what was left of the factory stampings. I simply used the backside and it's as smooth as a baby's behind. I'll be making new levers and getting it rebuilt. That's just one of the many things that needs to be done as I wait for better painting weather.

[Racinbob 10,256]

There was a UPS induced delay in getting the tranny bushings. So far they have been in 2 cities in MN, 1 in IL, 2 in TX and 2 in CA. How did they end up in CA? In the mean time I'm e-tanking parts and doing little things. The lift cable is cleaned up great. The lift handle had paint on it from the last 'restoration' so I cleaned it up. This morning I did the final shaping of the 2 new levers using the only original I had. I didn't drill the bottom holes to 1/4" because I don't want to commit how I'm going to attach the cables. The metal is .010" thicker than the original so now I need to get the knobs from Glenn in order to fit the levers to them. Once I get that done I'll do a final polish and clearcoat them. I'll also get a shifter knob from him. There were 2 with the tractor but I don't even think they started out life as a shifter knob.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Great pics Bob...nice to see you getting there.   It is worth it. 

[Racinbob 10,256]

Not much progress to report other than stripping the hood stand and tool box. I have a game plan for the hood stand repair that I can do with what I have available.  I did receive the shifter ball and throttle/choke knobs from Glen today. Outstanding!! With my homemade levers being .010" thicker it will require just a touch of work for a proper fit but my quick test fit tells me there will be very little to do and then I'll use a little adhesive to make sure they stay in place. I also received the carriage bushings today so I'll be able to get the tranny back together. Unfortunately, another house project I got myself into this morning will keep me from playing until probably Thursday.

[Racinbob 10,256]

After getting sidelined for other projects I finally got back to the transmission rebuild. All the parts at hand I start by reassembling the differential. Really a pretty simple stem but it still taught me a lesson. I slipped an axle gear in place, installed the new axle and inserted the roll pin. Piece of cake. I attempt to slip the other axle gear in place and that’s the lesson. Slip BOTH gears in place before installing the axles.   The second gear won’t go in with one axle pinned in place. OK, remove the axle I installed and do it right this time.  Now I’m ready to start putting all the guts in. Another roadblock. The axles won’t fit in the outer bronze bearing.   It was close but a definite no-go. I check the axles and they are right on the money. I try to slide an old axle through the bushing and nope, it won’t go. Clearly the bushings are a tad undersize. So, with the help of a wheel cylinder hone and some fine emery paper I get them honed out for a perfect fit. I’m cooking now. The rest of the assembly went fine and I thought I would have it done today. But I ran into another problem I can’t figure out. With the left cover still off I run it through the gears. Reverse, first and second are fine but third still has the spring loaded ‘catch’ in it. I put it in third and it pops out just a bit and feels just like it did before. The third/second gear engages the input gear just fine. But as soon as I let go of the shifter it slides out about 1/8†without turning any gears. I can see the rear shift rail move to the left about that 1/8â€. It feels like it’s under spring tension to move back to that position. I did not do anything to the shift rails. Now I’m thinking I should have. I’m stumped and need the advice of our forum transmission experts. Hint, hint………STEVE!!! HELP!!! I stopped right where I’m at until I know what to do. The left cover is still off.

[Racinbob 10,256]

I think I'm on to something. But, then again, I've thought that many times before only to get my idea shot down. For the sake of discussion let's call the odd shifter movement mentioned above 1/8". It's pretty clear that the notch in the shifter rail is moving past the ball stop and then popping back when I let go of the shifter. This is disengaging the hi/2nd gear from the input gear by that much. That can't be good. If I push the input shaft in 1/8" of course the spline shaft moves 1/8" out on the left side. BUT, that brings it flush with the cluster shaft on the left where they both fit in the side plate bearings. If I hold the input shaft in that position I'm getting full engagement of the hi/2nd gear and no more odd movement in the shifter. So, get the proper spacer behind the input shaft gear? I would have to verify that the left cover would fit properly but it looks like it would. It almost seems like the ball bearing on the input shaft is 1/8" too thin. Am I explaining this properly?

Edited May 28, 2014 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Bob...if the spline shaft and the cluster gear shaft are at the same height, then a spacer under the input gear will not work.  If the spline shaft is a little lower then the cluster gear shaft, then a spacer should help.  Here is what I think...one of the problems you were having with that trans in the first place is it was popping out of 3rd gear.  That means that the driver on the tractor would constantly be trying to hold on to 3rd gear with the shifter.  I think the fork on the 2nd/3rd shaft is bent back a little...which would explain what you are seeing.  I think you will be able to CAREFULLY bend the fork ends back down a little which should solve the problem.  I would take all the guts back out...enough to make room to grab each side of the fork with a pliers or channel locks...and bend one side at a time.  A very small roll pin holds the fork onto the shaft...do not want to mess with that if you do not have to.  What do you think??    You may want to take the casting back off the right side to do this...it would be much better to see what you are doing.

 

BTW...I thought I told you about having to hone the axle bushings/bearings to make the new axles fit.  You did good Bob...that was the right way to do it.  It usually does not take too much honing to get the good fit.

Edited May 28, 2014 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 10,256]

Not that you mention it Steve, you did tell me that. My photographic memory doesn't work very well since I ran out of film.   

 

Here's what I've checked. The fork looks OK but I don't know if it would be readily visible if it wasn't. If I'm seeing the parts list correctly both forks are identical and just installed in opposite directions. The angle of the forks are the same on both. With the cluster and spline shafts fully seated the spline shaft is about 1/8" lower than the cluster. I dry fit the left cover and the input shaft has that 1/8" in/out play. So, with that in mind, my next step is to do what you'd do in this situation. That would be....??

[Racinbob 10,256]

Well, scratch my last two posts. I pulled the right cover off  again to get a better look at things again. The shifter forks are probably the problem. One of them has about 1/2" broken off the tine. I don't know why I didn't see it sooner. I'm really not sure if I broke it when I was putting things together or if it was already broke. I would think a piece that size would reek havoc with the other internals if it was in there when the tractor was running. I didn't see the piece when I did the initial teardown but I haven't found it yet. It couldn't have drained out when I flushed the tranny since it couldn't fit through the little screw hole. There wasn't any sludge in it so it didn't get caught up in that. Whatever happened I'm just glad I caught it now. It is the one that engages the hi/2nd gear so I'm betting the issue will be resolved once I install a new fork. I went ahead and removed the forks. The spring and balls are in good shape. Am I having fun yet??