D-180 hydraulic steering

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

As I work my way through the issues with a recently acquired D-180 with an Ark loader, the steering is an issue of concern.  Presently there is a fair amount of slop, probably due to the failure of the bearings in the Ross steering box. 

 

I have two concerns about doing a rebuild of it.  The first is that the worm gear and/or fingers, which I am led to believe are hard to find parts, are worn and contributing to the slop.  The second is that even with a good rebuild, steering will still be tough especially with a full loader.  Some of the operators of the tractor might find the steering too difficult. 

 

In considering alternatives, I came across some hydraulic steering posts in the forums, but most involved someone who was supplying kits.  I did some further research and found that retrofitting full hydraulic steering might not be too difficult and might even be possible for under $400.  This would obviate the need for the Ross steering box rebuild and make steering very easy even with a full load. 

 

I found the parts shown below.

 

The drag link connection is almost in line with the right frame rail (facing forward) with 5" of travel, 3" for turning right and 2" for turning left. The drag link pin only veers off its coaxial line about half an inch at both ends of the range of movement.   A bracket on the underside of the frame for non-moving end of a double acting hydraulic cylinder and the moving rod attached to the drag link pin should be a relatively simple mounting arrangement. 

 

The steering valve has holes in the top of the column that would enable it to be mounted to the underside of the dash fairly simply.  The steering valve appears to be small enough to fit in the space under the dash.

 

For power there are two options.  One option is to take the flow from the front mounted PTO pump, but that means steering only when the PTO is engaged (without pumped flow, there is some limited in rate and without assist steering with the steering valve). 

 

The other option is to use the mid lift ports from the main hydro pump.  As this tractor will be dedicated to loader operations without a mid lift, I was already considering removing the mid lift mechanics and hydraulic hoses and plugging the ports.  This would mean power whenever the hydro unit is powered. 

 

The hydraulic lines will not be very long and will have plenty of room for routing. 

 

I think the mid lift cylinder is double acting.  Does anyone have the specs on it, especially the stroke length?  It might be usable as the steering cylinder, although the cylinder diameter is fairly large making the under frame installation a bit more tricky. 

 

Once I get through the drive system issues, I am going to mock the parts up in cardboard and fit them in place to see how it might work fit-wise.  Photos will then be provided. 

 

But before then I thought I would seek input from the forum members -- comments, questions, and concerns. 

 

Thanks very much. 

 

B/R

 

John

 

 

 

 

[wh79d160 52]

The idea sounds good. As far as your Ross steering goes. You can get all the replacement parts thru JD. Try tightening the worm gear stud. Loosen the 2 jam nuts. There is a slot for a screw driver on the end of it. Turn it 1/4 turn clock wise & check it. If you need more then turn it in1/2 turn increments after that. When you get it where u want it, tighten the 2 jam nuts back down.

[JamesBe1 80]

You might consider tri-rib tires on the front.  Not sure how well they would go with and FEL.  I recently put a pair of tri-ribs on my C-120.  The difference was night and day.  Almost felt like power steering compared to the old turf saver tires.

[pfrederi 17,125]

Interesting idea.  Do you have the heavy 1" front spindles?

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

pfrederi -

 

I do not know what size the front spindles are.  I will check later today (it is under a tied town tarp on a trailer, so there is some effort involved to get to it). 

 

But what is the significance of the spindle size?

 

My plan is for the cylinder to be mounted in line and to connect to the drag link arm leaving all the tie rods in place.  Since I plan to limit the stroke to the drag link pin range, there should be no more stress on the system than with the mechanical steering.

 

I did a bit more research and it seems that I should add a relief valve to the system. 

 

B/R

 

John

[Hodge71 662]

Because the 3/4 spindles will bend like a pretzel with a fully loaded bucket and some bounces. Add to that the additional side and torsional forces of hydraulically powered steering and you have a recipe for disaster. The factory had the 1" spindle upgrade for loader tractors and then made it standard equipment after 77 if I remember correctly. 

[pfrederi 17,125]

Hodge said what i was thinking.  if you load the bucket up enough to make the steering difficult then the  standard spindles  will probably bend. With the force of the hydro steering only more so.

 

 

Edit:  With the standard steering you cannot turn the wheels with a loaded bucket with out having the tractor moving. That reduces the stress on the spindle almost like a safety feature/valve.  With the hydro assist you may turn the wheels standing still greatly increasing the pressure in which case I am afraid all that will happen is the spindles will bend.

Edited March 12, 2014 by pfrederi

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

Good news, the rain yesterday and the snow today stopped, so I checked the spindles -- they are the 1" type.  So not as fragile a the 3/4" and better able to stand up to the hydraulic steering. 

 

Interesting suggestion on the ribbed tires.  I am a bit concerned that in soggy turf they might dig in a bit.  What has the experience been?

 

The current front tires are old, dry and cracked so they are up for replacement in due course.   The current front tires are mismatched turf tires that seem wider than the specified 18x6.50-8 (I have to check the sidewall next time I venture out in the cold).  I was thinking about slightly narrower turf tires, hopefully that would still fit on the present rims.  I found the sawtooth turf tire shown below as one possibility.  

 

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks.

 

B/R

 

John

[Trouty56 565]

How about 5 rib tires....

 

http://www.millertire.com/products/lawn-garden-tires/18x8-50-8/18x8-50-8-v61-hd-5-rib-4-ply/

 

 

Edited March 13, 2014 by Trouty56

[Hodge71 662]

No experience with either 5 ribs or sawtooth John. I can tell you that I have had great luck with Carlisle Turfmasters on the front of my 18 auto in 18x9.50-8 and they float really nice. I believe they still make a 4 ply which is the minimum I would want if I was doing a loader tractor. 2 Ply tires wont have the weight capacity.... 4 or 6 ply is much better suited for the loader weight

 

 

Also your tractor should have 18x8.50 tires on it. I think the 18x6.50 was standard in 73 and 74 but both years had tire upgrades to the 8.50 in front. Once they went to a 1" spindle they went to the 8.50....You want as much width as you can get to distribute the load of a loader and full bucket. With hydraulic steering you wont notice the difference....

I would also check with the member "The Power Steering Guy" ...he did your idea already with a D-200 and loader and may have some personal experience to help you figure things out

Edited March 13, 2014 by hodge71

[Don1977 604]

6 ply tires also steer better because they don't deform ever time you run over a bump.

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

Great suggestions and information. Thanks very much.

 

Yes, the number of plys will be at least 4 and if possible 6.

 

I do not think I had ever seen 5 rib or all even ribs before.  It is a great look.

 

B/R

 

John

[pfrederi 17,125]

John

Two other weak spots in the front end that the hydro steering may find for you.  The pivot bolt in the bell crank, Mine broke when i first bought it.  Went with a Grade 8 replacement so far so good.  The front wheel bearings are also a weak spot.  A member here came up with a nice upgrade.

[JamesBe1 80]

You can think of the ribbed ties almost as a dirt-rudder.  They are best used on loose soil where the center rib can cut into the dirt and keep the tractor going where you want it to.  As the tire sinks in, the second outside ribs contact the ground and share the load and diminishes the sinking into the soil.  I suppose that the five rib tires would sink even less before the other ribs contact the soil.  That would make for less dig-in.  The side effect of all this is that on pavement or hard packed soil, the center ribs have a small contact point with the ground.  It takes a lot less force to then turn the wheel.

 

Ribbed tires on a tractor with an FEL might be the way to go since you probably really want to control where the front of the tractor goes very carefully.  I can say that the steering on my D-180/FEL takes a lot of effort due to the large contact area of the tire and all the weight on it.  I will probably go with them when the time comes for new front tires.  I like the five ribbed tires on the front of Bob's tractor.

 

 

I have noticed only a minimal amount of dig-in with the tri-ribs on my C-120, but I don't have anything hanging off of the front.

Edited March 14, 2014 by JamesBe1

[whlpny 201]

John - How are your fabrication skills?? The PS unit is nice you posted, but look into retrofitting a PS column out of a JD 318 GT. If you have the ability to do some cutting and welding these are very simple to shorten up and fit into a horse. The advantage of going with the JD column is the newer 318 tractors have a 5-port valve that would allow you to leave your midlift valve operational. You would need to switch the supply line that runs into the midlift and feed the PS column with it then use the 5th port which is power beyond on the PS column to feed back to the midlift supply inlet. I have done a conversion with the JD column on my C-195- and it works great.

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

Bob -

 

Thanks for the input.  Do you have photos of your installation?

 

My fabrication skills are okay.  I am out of practice welding and would have to rent or convince my wife that I need a welding rig....

 

The mid lift is definitely going to be idle.  I have a Craftsman GT5000 for mowing and snow throwing.  The D-180 is going to be a dedicated loader.  So losing the mid lift gear and functionality is not a problem.

 

I like the idea of pulling the parts from another tractor but there are not really any tractor junk yards around here and it would be hit or miss on ebay and craigslist. 

 

The Char-Lynn steering valve is an easy install because the main unit will bolt directly to the underside of the dash -- four holes to drill -- and there is plenty of room under the dash.  Other units would require more bracket work further down in the guts under the dash. 

 

At the steering linkage end, there is only one bracket to make and attach for the static end of the cylinder and I should be able to handle that by cutting and drilling without welding. 

 

B/R

 

John

[whlpny 201]

Try this --

[jdmitchjr@6dlam.com 5]

whlpny --

 

Thanks for the link to your steering build.  Your fabrication skills far exceed mine. 

 

I really like your "all from the garage parts" restriction.   

 

Very impressive.  I will be studying your build.

 

And there is one tractor salvage yard guy in southern NH that I am going to check out for a suitable JD donor.  The environmental and safety  laws in MA make it near impossible for such a yard to operate here. 

 

Thanks.

 

B/R

 

John

[alswagg 128]

I will be adding power steering to my D180 loader/backhoe.  I have aquired a JD 318 steering cyl and valve assy.  Has anyone done this conversion on a D series?

[bewford 21]

I will be adding power steering to my D180 loader/backhoe. I have aquired a JD 318 steering cyl and valve assy. Has anyone done this conversion on a D series?

Yep "the power steering guy" on here has it all figured out and sells kits. Edited July 8, 2014 by bewford

[elliot ness 1,916]

As I work my way through the issues with a recently acquired D-180 with an Ark loader, the steering is an issue of concern.  Presently there is a fair amount of slop, probably due to the failure of the bearings in the Ross steering box. 

 

I have two concerns about doing a rebuild of it.  The first is that the worm gear and/or fingers, which I am led to believe are hard to find parts, are worn and contributing to the slop.  The second is that even with a good rebuild, steering will still be tough especially with a full loader.  Some of the operators of the tractor might find the steering too difficult. 

 

In considering alternatives, I came across some hydraulic steering posts in the forums, but most involved someone who was supplying kits.  I did some further research and found that retrofitting full hydraulic steering might not be too difficult and might even be possible for under $400.  This would obviate the need for the Ross steering box rebuild and make steering very easy even with a full load. 

 

I found the parts shown below.

 

The drag link connection is almost in line with the right frame rail (facing forward) with 5" of travel, 3" for turning right and 2" for turning left. The drag link pin only veers off its coaxial line about half an inch at both ends of the range of movement.   A bracket on the underside of the frame for non-moving end of a double acting hydraulic cylinder and the moving rod attached to the drag link pin should be a relatively simple mounting arrangement. 

 

The steering valve has holes in the top of the column that would enable it to be mounted to the underside of the dash fairly simply.  The steering valve appears to be small enough to fit in the space under the dash.

 

For power there are two options.  One option is to take the flow from the front mounted PTO pump, but that means steering only when the PTO is engaged (without pumped flow, there is some limited in rate and without assist steering with the steering valve). 

 

The other option is to use the mid lift ports from the main hydro pump.  As this tractor will be dedicated to loader operations without a mid lift, I was already considering removing the mid lift mechanics and hydraulic hoses and plugging the ports.  This would mean power whenever the hydro unit is powered. 

 

The hydraulic lines will not be very long and will have plenty of room for routing. 

 

I think the mid lift cylinder is double acting.  Does anyone have the specs on it, especially the stroke length?  It might be usable as the steering cylinder, although the cylinder diameter is fairly large making the under frame installation a bit more tricky. 

 

Once I get through the drive system issues, I am going to mock the parts up in cardboard and fit them in place to see how it might work fit-wise.  Photos will then be provided. 

 

But before then I thought I would seek input from the forum members -- comments, questions, and concerns. 

 

Thanks very much. 

 

B/R

 D-series tractor came from the factory with thrust bearing under the axle on the spindles, they are only 1/8 in thick and most were destroyed because of lack of grease and never cleaning them, but if you look in the manuals for the D's you will see them, most were smashed completely out after a short period of time, but you can replace them very easy and presto your steering will become must easier. most good hardware stores carry 3/4 or 1in. thrust bearings and they are cheep. I have put them in many D's and lots of other Garden tractors.

John