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jimmycrackcorn

Wheelhorses & Snow Removal

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jimmycrackcorn

Good evening everyone,

First post here, is going to be a big one but i need some help. I've been eyeing Wheelhorse rigs for quite sometime for snow removal. As a kid i can remember every surrounding neighbor blasting there driveways out with Wheelhorses & Blower attachments. It seemed as if the snow would throw for miles.. My current snow apparatus consist of a new Airens Pro 32 with a 21hp briggs, a old powerstroke that plows when it wants to & a decent toro that crapped out right before a storm. I had to buy the airens in a pinch when my toro went down and the "Polar Vortex" was headed my way... haha. It wasn't something i really wanted to do as i really was in the market for a Horse & blower but naturally nothing was available while in a pinch.

So my question to you guys/gals is,

1. If i wanted to run a two stage horse or a berco, what machine is going to throw that snow the furthest.

2. Does engine size even matter if you can run smaller/larger pully sizes?

3. I see 520's, 416-8 & a one 518 up for sale. I understand the two 5 series i mentioned have bigger engines & there is also alot of other variables to consider rather than just the motor. Which of these is going to perform the best for me running a 2 stage blower. That's all it will be used for.

4. To who ever would, don't take this the wrong way..What is reasonable in terms of pricing? I've seen some of these units going for what i consider, astronomical prices like 3k+.. I understand alot of times ppl in general think there stuff worth it's weight in gold for some reason, but what is it with these 15-20yr old tractors? My neighbors weren't rich when i was a kid so i can't imagine they were spending huge coin every few years when they would turn out there old Wheelhorse's out for new ones. What would they spend on a bigger unit, $4000maybe $5500 hundred if they were getting getting the wool pulled over there eyes..? I know the commercial use Wright Stander i have was something like 8k new in 08, I've used it, added all the attatchments i need, replaced the motor for $1200. If i was to sell the 6yr old machine with a brand new motor id probably ask $3-3500 & it wasn't even used commercially. I don't see how the value of a lawn tractor thats been run for almost 20yrs & only cost $4000-5500 new can be worth $3000 also. I also remember as a kid, when my old man was fed up with fixing his lawn tractor it would go to the scrapyard because it was done, clapped out, used up & worth nothing. So i must ask, Is this just a niche where some ppl will pay big $$ for really old equipment thus the reason i see them selling for $3000? Hopefully someone can fill me in on reasonable prices & why they are really worth. Some of the hardcore horsemen might take all that the wrong way, it wasn't meant to, I'm just kinda boggled as to how some of these units are priced.

5. Here are some pics of the 520 I'm considering. Do any of you see anything obvious i should be aware of & anything missing that would prevent me from from mounting a blower..? & no it's not selling for 3k but i still don't understand how it's selling for what it is..lol.

a2y5epe6.jpgame5ure9.jpgajynebe4.jpg3y5etegu.jpgba9esyhe.jpgute2ybyz.jpg

Thanks for taking the time to read the questions i laid out. Maybe you can help shed some light on them? Good day yall.

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Ken B

He wants 1400 obo on that one, its got a little less than 500 hrs on it. All I can say is that you can barely buy Sears cheapest tractor for a grand. That 520 was probably all of 5 grand when it was new. There is always gonna be a guy that says its only worth 700.00. Alot of guys are looking for a 520 at the moment (myself included) All I can say is if you find something, especially if its on Craigslist you better act quick....A good low hr. 520 is your best bet for running a two stage.

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WH nut

Welcome o the Square

 The tractor about looks likes its been well taken care of. That being said, looks can be deceiving so you need to look it over. If in fact the price is 1400, that wouldn't be bad if it came with a deck, tractor alone maybe 1000 to 1200. But that is just what I consider a decent price. Supply and demand controls the market.

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boovuc

Welcome Jim!   :WRS:

answer(opinion) to #1...............The 520 will throw it furthest!

answer(opinion) to #2...............Size does matter! :)  At least on a two-stage blower. You require a 16 horse minimum motor and the overwhelming majority will stand with the Onan 20HP in the 520 model.

                                                  The 518 comes with a different hydro trannie that you want to avoid if possible! (Eaton 1100 verses the Eaton 700). All 520's have the Eaton 1100! 2cyl better than a single for a

                                                   2-stage blower! Other options are a 417A and a C-175 though these are older tractors than the 520's. The 520 is best period.

Answer(opinion) to #3...............See Answer(opinion) #1

Answer(opinion) to #4...............As stated above, the 520's are higher in price. A low hour great shape 520H in the US East will run between 800 to 1500 bucks with a mower deck. The good deals go quickly.

                                                  Add to that a two-stage thrower at 700 to 1200 bucks and some weights, chains, and your total rig should cost out average between say 1500 to 2700 bucks for a decent deal

Answer(opinion) to #5...............Looks good. Make sure you run any automatic tractor while test driving it until it is completely warmed up and try to push something or drive a hill looking for a weakening unit!

 

Also look at a package deal for a WheelHorse/Toro Xi series tractor. They are newer, heavier and actually better in many respects than the 520 series including some equipped with power steering. An Xi package is more $$$ buck may well be worth it to you! Good Luck!

Edited by boovuc
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WH nut

Keep in mind, the XI series requires its own attachments. The Cs and numbered 300, 400 500 are interchangable

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Kelly

If you must have a 2 stage as stated above 16hp or more, I recommend a machine with hyd lift also, a 520 would be perfect.

 

  Some older machines in nice shape are still worth a few thousand $$ with attachments, have you priced a comparable machine ?? not a box store unit a real GT go to a JD dealer price a 425 or the likes with a blower, weights, chains and a deck I bet your at $9k easy so yes a low hour nice well kept unit is still a $2k machine with attachments, a bare tractor nice under 500 hours will run in the $800-1200 range add a nice deck $200-300 add a blower $200-300 a 2 stage blower $500-700 chains and weights $100-150 a cab $200-300 if your talking a XI series add about $500 to the bare tractor and at least $100 to each attachment.

 

 The 520 you have pictured above if it's as nice as it looks and under 400 hours it is a $1000 to 1500 machine, and if it has a deck even more so, I see weights and chains so I assume it has a plow or blower?? if it has a deck and snow attachment it is worth all of $1400 but I would offer $1000 and work up.

 

  As was said above you can't buy much new for $1400 now days, cheap throw away box store stuff, that in 10 years with good up keep is nearing the end of it's life, a good unit can last a lift time with care and maintenance. 

Edited by Kelly
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rexman72

welcome to the group

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AMC RULES

Trust me, them  :wh: 520's will blow some snow. :handgestures-thumbsup:

                 :WRS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX4qUILtQ1Y

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dandan111

Check the fuse box area for corrosion. Make sure all the wiring works. Looks like a clean unit. I think the 12hp up iron blocks can run a blower fine but bigger never hurts. I like my little 314 with a blade but if we had many snows like Craig has above I would be looking for a blower!

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jimmycrackcorn

Trust me, them :wh: 520's will blow some snow. :handgestures-thumbsup:

:WRS:

Wow! I wasnt expecting that many responses, i greatly appreciate it, I'll try to respond to y'all in a few. I gotta go pack my bags for tomorrow's adventure..

AMC - is that a single stage? How many inches was that? About 7 or 8?

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rexman72

those single  stage  blowers look like they can throw some serious snow and there half the weight on the two stage blowers.I will have to look into getting one

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dbartlett1958

those single  stage  blowers look like they can throw some serious snow and there half the weight on the two stage blowers.I will have to look into getting one

Rexman,

 

I love my single stage on my 416. It has a lot less moving parts and weighs a lot less than a 2-stage. The 2-stage might work a bit better in real wet snow, but I can use my Toro walk behind if needed.

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608KEB

The OMEN520 has evil power!! If maintained properly, it should run a long time.

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AMC RULES

Wow! I wasnt expecting that many responses, i greatly appreciate it, I'll try to respond to y'all in a few. I gotta go pack my bags for tomorrow's adventure..

AMC - is that a single stage? How many inches was that? About 7 or 8?

Yes to both questions.

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leeave96

That's a nice looking 520H. They are a beast of a tractor and handle the snow blower with ease.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Kelly

Unless you get 8" of snow on a reg basis a single stage blower will work fine,  even a short shoot, the tall shoot only directs it better, a cab with a blower is a major plus, here is one of my 520's after a few hours of use.

 

  This unit has just tripped 400 hours and is very clean, weights all around, rebuilt single stage tall shoot, XL 520 cab, as it sets I would not take less than $2000 just to give you a idea.

 

post-85-0-80464200-1393240362_thumb.jpg

Edited by Kelly
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MalMac

Sent you a PM

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jimmycrackcorn

If you must have a 2 stage as stated above 16hp or more, I recommend a machine with hyd lift also, a 520 would be perfect.

Some older machines in nice shape are still worth a few thousand $$ with attachments, have you priced a comparable machine ?? not a box store unit a real GT go to a JD dealer price a 425 or the likes with a blower, weights, chains and a deck I bet your at $9k easy so yes a low hour nice well kept unit is still a $2k machine with attachments, a bare tractor nice under 500 hours will run in the $800-1200 range add a nice deck $200-300 add a blower $200-300 a 2 stage blower $500-700 chains and weights $100-150 a cab $200-300 if your talking a XI series add about $500 to the bare tractor and at least $100 to each attachment.

The 520 you have pictured above if it's as nice as it looks and under 400 hours it is a $1000 to 1500 machine, and if it has a deck even more so, I see weights and chains so I assume it has a plow or blower?? if it has a deck and snow attachment it is worth all of $1400 but I would offer $1000 and work up.

As was said above you can't buy much new for $1400 now days, cheap throw away box store stuff, that in 10 years with good up keep is nearing the end of it's life, a good unit can last a lift time with care and maintenance.

Nahh.. I haven't priced out a comparable new one but would imagine like most things it isn't cheap & most likely overpriced as brandy new equipment usually is. The thing that gets me about these stright job tractors & there price points is, i don't think i can get past the common stigma I have about them. With out trying to bash any brand or model, when i think lawn tractor, even real deal tractors like jd, i think of messy mowing lines (circle cropping we call it), hard ability to stripe even when going straight & constantly having to unclog the bagger chute, something commercial mowers like exmark for example don't do very often because they have those turbo chute accelerators, they are great maneuvering in tight quarters & stripe like a dream because of the huge vacuum even without a striping kit. You could drive figure 8's all over the place matting your lawn, all you have to do is just mow over it once & all marks are gone. With something like a lawn tractor it would be much harder to reverse the matting. Personally I've never seen performance of that nature out of straight job/ lawn tractors. I would imagine your also looking at a relativley comparable entry point compared to a deere tractor or the like, say 8-10grand. You can also add attatchments to the xmarks etc. With all that said, i just happen to grab a stander that is not able to use a blower due to design limitations which is a bummer & had i thought ahead i would of chosen different. I guess that's why the price points of these wheel horses seem high to me, I've always just considered them to be second teir in a way, compared to what commercial companies used day in day out to make their $$ & do other jobs a mower can do with attachments. So when i see a 15yr old horse selling for the same or more $$ than what i consider to be a teir1 commercial piece of equipment it makes wonder how they could be worth the same.. Also using "teirs" as a way to describe their commercial capabilities maybe isn't the best way to go about comparing them but it's the best i could explain my opinions. Although you can get almost identical attatchments for both styles the more i try to compare the different styles the more I'm starting to think they the different styles have different purposes but can do the same stuff, just in different ways or speed... Kinda like two different poisons..you know? Apples to Oranges but for the same purpose..?

Make sure you run any automatic tractor while test driving it until it is completely warmed up and try to push something or drive a hill looking for a weakening unit!

Also look at a package deal for a WheelHorse/Toro Xi series tractor. They are newer, heavier and actually better in many respects than the 520 series including some equipped with power steering. An Xi package is more $$$ buck may well be worth it to you! Good Luck!

That is very good advice, i should of known better as I've replaced countless trannys but i deff wouldn't have drove it up hills to check, thanks for that one!

So what's the deal with the Xi series? How much newer are they? Sorry not up on my wheelhorse.. Ask me about a xmark or wright or walker & ill probably know a little more as i was a landscaper for years.. I pretty much stopped keeping track of these straight jobbers when the zero turn commercial mowers got big. Does the Xi kinda look like the normal run of the mill tractors, just with big tires? In other words.. they don't look like a horse, all streamlined & whatnot? Is that the one you speak of? I'll Google it..lol..

Check the fuse box area for corrosion.

I know how to feel out a rig for the most part, but would the fuse box on these be a good indication of the over all condition with tearing the guys tractor apart to look in Nooks and Cranny's for rot? I can't stand rot!

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jimmycrackcorn

Unless you get 8" of snow on a reg basis a single stage blower will work fine, even a short shoot, the tall shoot only directs it better, a cab with a blower is a major plus, here is one of my 520's after a few hours of use.

This unit has just tripped 400 hours and is very clean, weights all around, rebuilt single stage tall shoot, XL 520 cab, as it sets I would not take less than $2000 just to give you a idea.

attachicon.gif102_4577.JPG

Looks like a nice rig.. That's exactly what my neighbors used to run but with a two stage i believe. We've been getting pounded latley so a 2stage is probably best for me, my deck has about 3-4 feet. I also have to blow snow once & a while that has been previously plowed & then sat for weeks so it's real icy hard stuff sometimes, the type of stuff a walk behind will just ride over. If a horse is in my future i was thinking the electric lift would be a good idea, but can u use it in the other direction, to push in a downward motion, kinda like scraping a driveway with a loader.

Do you think a two stage is better for that hard stuff or a fast spinning single to chew through it/break it away. However i do worry the fast single would get destroyed hitting the hard stuff while spinning so fast..

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Ken B

How much snow do you have to clear? It almost sounds like you might be happier with a nice big two stage walk behind...Perhaps not as much fun as running a 520 with a blower but you can get them into tighter spaces. Not too mention that a snow cab is cheaper for a walk behind than they are for a ride on tractor. If you'll be using a tractor for snow purposes only I'd rather let the walk behind sit around for the rest of the year than a 520 myself..Snow season is almost over as you know. We might get nothing next yr.

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jimmycrackcorn

How much snow do you have to clear? It almost sounds like you might be happier with a nice big two stage walk behind...Perhaps not as much fun as running a 520 with a blower but you can get them into tighter spaces. Not too mention that a snow cab is cheaper for a walk behind than they are for a ride on tractor. If you'll be using a tractor for snow purposes only I'd rather let the walk behind sit around for the rest of the year than a 520 myself..Snow season is almost over as you know. We might get nothing next yr.

How much snow? Have gotten about 2feet over the last two weeks ontop of the existing foot we already had. A big walk behind..? Why would i be happier with a big walk behind, i don't get it? I just bought a brand new airens pro 32.. I didn't want to buy it but like i mentioned in the op but i had to grab it in a pinch when my 3yr old toro crapped out... With the Airens i just got they only make one size up from there & i believe it's a 36, but the engine don't get any bigger. Even if i wanted another one i wouldn't want anything wider then i already have with the 21hp motor, it's good but the extra width would just slow it down. Why do i want a rider? I hate how the walk behinds jump around, how the snow blasts in my face & how when it comes up on an icy bank it just wants to climb up/tilt back, you know all the typical draw backs of a slow walk behind. Even if i was to put a cab/shell on the walk behind it would be pointless as when it starts to climb up & tip back in icy banks is just going to come down ontop of me. I need something heavier to dig rather than just my 200lbs pushing it into the banks when the tires want to spin or she wants too climb. As far as the rest of the year with a rider, i could care less what it does as long as when the snow flies it starts & runs like a horse is touted to. Plus the less hours i put on it the better...ya know

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MalMac

I think you will find out that any snowblower walk behind or tractor mounted will have trouble with frozen snow piles. The two just don't mix together well. You get in there with a big 2 stage and it will break or get clog up with frozen snow junks like anything else. Even on are farm with big blowers that's mounted on farm tractors we don't attempt to throw frozen snow. Frozen snow junks equal big repairs. When the snow freezes like it did this year there really is only a couple of ways to combat it. One make sure you get the piles out of the way before they have a chance to sit and freeze or try and use a front end loader to chip away at them or I guess a third is let nature take them away. No matter how you look at it a snowblower does have a limited window of when and what type of snow it gets used in. That's why many of the members have tractors with both snowblowers mounted and plows.

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bmsgaffer

I personally don't think you will be happy with the horse/blower combo. And garden tractors don't have the same performance as pro line walk behinds for cutting because they were designed to do many different tasks. I doubt you could tow 2000lbs of rock behind a pro line mower or run a 36" tiller.

 

I have three tractors (possibly 4 this week) and MUCH less than $1k invested in all of them.

 

Personally, I think it will end up breaking and being blamed on the fact that you bought a '15 year old tier 2' tractor when nothing was designed for what you are trying to do. These tractors are essentially solid cast iron, and while not flawless, are generally more durable than most late model garden tractors. You still have to move slow into large piles even though the extra weight is of some advantage. You will need weights, chains and a cab at a minimum to meet your expectations. Even on a tractor you will end up looking like a snowman without a cab.

 

And the 'rest of the year' you have to be sure you are doing maintenance on it or anything you buy will break down.

 

"it starts & runs like a horse is touted to" only if it is treated well and taken care of. (Yearly) Change engine oil, transmission oil less often, air cleaner, clean and wash, stabilize gas, grease joints, oil blower chain, keep things painted and not rusty, and repairs will still be necessary.

 

If you can manage just blowing normal snow (not frozen into an iceberg), and doing the maintenance then you found the right place. These guys are awesome and can help with anything. If you want to start attacking piles of frozen snow I would start looking into dozer or dumptruck/plow combos.

Edited by bmsgaffer
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dandan111

Sounds like you know what you want. I would get tractor,single stage/ tall chute and a cab. You will want chains and weights also I bet.

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dennist

I agree with Brandon, I think your expectations would not be met with a tractor/blower combo.

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