can a battery be too large?

[nyquil junkie 225]

I am gonna put a winch on my little 856, and I am being told that big truck or car sized battery used to replace the standard garden tractor sized one on the machine is a bad idea....it will ruin the charging system.

I want larger battery on to to accommodate the needs of the winch.... but I dont wanna burn up the charge system.

I didnt think it would make any reference, a 12v garden car or truck battery only differs in the CCA rating.

Is this a bad idea or is my brother full of it?

Edited January 12, 2014 by nyquil junkie

[smoreau 658]

it will take a long time to recharge the battery with a stock 15amp charging system. that would be the only bad thing I could think of for being a problem. I had a old vertical shaft tractor that had a car battery in it for 5 years without any problems.

[nyquil junkie 225]

I'm putting this tractor to work in the woods skidding firewood logs and whatnot, so I'll be putting on headlights, and the winch.

After it is parked for the day, I can just clip the battery minder on it for the night. That should makeup for the drain.

Ya think the tractor running will maintain a large battery for the day, with occasional winch use?

[ARK 9]

Do you have a 15A charger built in the motor?

What Amp hour capacity is the battery?

Loading, lights, ignition, winch and starter…what is total amperage discharge at the worst?

How long will the tractor engine run over 2500 RPM?

 

With answers to these questions:

1 large battery

or A couple batteries toggled/alternated

 

The battery is a storage tank that fills and empties as needed, but emptying is a fact of a lot of electrons, or current being removed and all this current that leaves quickly can only be made up by the 15 A charge system with long use.  e.g..  A 100A start will take time to be made up at 15 A but the rest of the tractor lights, ignition and now a winch  will use part of that 15 A charge.  

 

You will need a battery system with a big reserve capacity the CCA will remain the same.  Storage capacity will have to be a lot bigger than stock.

 

Have you space to install a bigger capacity battery?  Or 2 batteries.?

 

2 batteries alternating will also provide what you need, but the alternation should be monitored and automatic as with DC voltage changing over one to the other and back.  Entails control, but a single large battery with lots of reserve power, enough CCA and a great storage capacity will do, but you may have to increase the holding capacity, the cable capacity and improve the terminations.

 

Just my thoughts!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

An 856 has a starter/generator with a guesstimated output of 10 amps.

My thoughts.....

You could install a field ground switch to force the generator into maximum output - much like the old Farmall tractors did with the O/D/B light switch. Flip the switch on, use the winch, and turn off the switch in a few minutes. You'll want to add a volt gauge at the very least.

 

If that's not enough "juice", you could install an automotive alternator driven off the engine.

[swarfeater 49]

In this case, the bigger the bat the better.  You are going to use the same amount of energy from the battery regardless of the size and a smaller bat will discharge to a lower voltage faster requiring a higher output from the alternator. just make sure the new bat is completly charged when installing to minimize alt load.

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

If you put an automotive sized battery on there (and use more capacity than a normal tractor battery) then the charging system will be cranking out peak power the entire time you are running. The small 15 amp charging system will be taxed too much and probably fail sooner rather than later. And probably never fully recharge the battery, which is also a problem, but you said you could put it on the battery minder at night (i would run a full automatic charger, not just a minder if you use it daily).

 

If you are only using it occasionally, I would just keep the tractor running at full speed when you are using the winch and it should be able to keep up with demand fairly well (assuming you aren't pulling the max load with the winch).

 

If you plan on running it all the time at maximum load I would rig up an old Chevy 60amp alternator off the drive or PTO belt and then you can increase to a small automotive battery and not kill the little engines charging system.

[nyquil junkie 225]

Good advice... thanks.

The winch will be on there just in case to pull the tractor out of any place it happens to get stuck while I am cutting trails. If I am careful I probably wont ever need the thing, except maybe to pull an occasional log out of the way or something.

The property is down the road and I'll only be using the tractor maybe once or twice a week. I think the battery minder will have enough time to do the job ok.

Keeping the engine pegged while winching is a good suggestion.

As for space, yeah I am putting a box on the back to hold it. A couple sicks of angle iron and a plate bolted on.

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Good advice... thanks.

The winch will be on there just in case to pull the tractor out of any place it happens to get stuck while I am cutting trails. If I am careful I probably wont ever need the thing, except maybe to pull an occasional log out of the way or something.

The property is down the road and I'll only be using the tractor maybe once or twice a week. I think the battery minder will have enough time to do the job ok.

Keeping the engine pegged while winching is a good suggestion.

As for space, yeah I am putting a box on the back to hold it. A couple sicks of angle iron and a plate bolted on.

 

With your usage, I would just stick with the biggest lawn tractor battery that fits the standard battery box. I doubt you will over draw what a good-shape lawn and garden battery could give you.

[nyquil junkie 225]

That would make it easier. The very smallest atv winch I can find shouldn't draw much.

Too bad I'm not handy enough to create a belt driven winch for the front end to run right off the engine pulley that runs the implements like snowblowers.

I dont suppose anyone has ever created one.....have they?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

It's been done, but the pictures have vanished.

 

 

(4th post)

 

Perhaps you can drop a line to Ian ("Stigian") and see if he has them saved elsewhere?

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

That would make it easier. The very smallest atv winch I can find shouldn't draw much.

Too bad I'm not handy enough to create a belt driven winch for the front end to run right off the engine pulley that runs the implements like snowblowers.

I dont suppose anyone has ever created one.....have they?

 

I have never seen one, but that doesnt mean they dont exist. It would be a wild ride if the winch was directly belt driven from the PTO . Winches are usually more controlled and have brakes on them to prevent you from rolling back down the hill once you hit the top. The best alternative to electric would be to have a hydraulic pump driven from the PTO and then have a hydraulic motor for the winch. But I dont see making something small enough to be effective for the tractor.

 

A 2000lb winch can draw over 100 amps at full load, but the tractor probably weighs 6-800 so you wouldnt be at full load even if you lifted the tractor straight off the ground (not advisable ).

 

I would say you will see 15-50A amps pulling the tractor around and out of various messes. Which over a short time (couple minutes or less) your charging system should be able to recover nicely.

Edited January 14, 2014 by bmsgaffer