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Fishroe

New guy stumped on charging system

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Hi folks.  Hope someone can point me in the right direction.   I have a 414-8  i just bought. charging system not working.  3 amp system.  Disconnected stator plug.  With engine running I have 27 volts ac on headlight wire.  On diode lead i  have open circuit. I'm assuming its an open circuit because its the same reading you would get when holding both probes of meter in air not touching each other.  When i check ac voltage i am grounding negative probe on starter mounting bracket bolt where ground wire from battery is. Yes i did use  dc voltage on diode lead wire.  So thinking the stator was bad i bought a new kohler stator.  Put it on today and getting the same readings.  The only thing i can think of is maybe the magnets are not doing right.  I have taken the flywheel off and on twice.  the 2nd time one magnet came off.  glued it back with jb weld.  same readings  no charge.  One other weird thing, the first reading on new stator headlight wire i was getting 41 volts ac.  After cutting engine off and restarting had 25 volts ac.  I'm lost other than putting brand new flywheel on.  Do magnets go bad and cause the problem i'm having.  Any input would be helpful.  Thanks

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I'm not much help on newer stuff, but given your voltage difference after restarting, I'd say check and recheck your grounds. All I can think of.

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At what RPM were you taking your readings? Also, what year is the 414-8?

 

:WRS:

Edited by rmaynard

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wide open throttle  I'm pretty sure it is a 1986   the vin plate is missing but the kohler 14hp was made in 1986.  I checked dc voltage on stator wire with diode plugged and unplugged.  Does it have to make complete loop through ignition switch then back to starter solenoid then to battery to show a charge.  I would think i would get dc voltage with it unplugged.  Man i'm just grabbing for straws right now

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Okay. Here are individual wiring diagrams for a 1986 414-8, charging, lights, etc.

 

Each diagram represents that portion of the stator dedicated to the individual item. For example, the portion with the diode supplies DC to the gauges and the charging circuit. The one with the two AC wires and the rectifier supply the lighting circuit.

 

At the diode, you should be reading DC voltage for charging if you have the (-) meter lead attached to ground, and the other to the diode end of the wire.

 

post-2221-0-01937300-1385048845_thumb.jp

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thank you for the reply my system is the 3 amp non regulated stator has 2 wires on it 1 goes to headlight switch the other one with diode goes to ignition switch i do not have a regulator/rectifier or hour meter or amp meter i have the idiot lights and low oil switch. I looked at wiring diagram for it thats how i figured out which system i have. mine has the 5amp fuse and 15 amp fuse volt meter is working after i replaced with an auto meter one i had laying around had to replace the 5 amp fuse also 15 amp fuse is working also i checked that i'm going by the wiring diagram out of owners manual i printed off. everything corresponds to it i guess my question is there anything (safety switches etc.) that would cause me not to get any voltage from stator wire with diode in it

Edited by Fishroe

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Looks like yours is similar to the 1985 416-8.

post-2221-0-23845100-1385059322_thumb.pn

 

If you have no voltage at the diode, my guess would be that you have a bad ground connection at the stator.

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it is grounded by being bolted to the bearing plate is that correct. is that the only way it is grounded

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Doesn't seem right that you would have two bad stators. I am assuming you did have a new diode also. Did you check the voltage at the battery?

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hey guys thanks for the help.  well after further investigation i decided to check ac voltage at the end of the wire with diode in it which is supposed to be dc.  low and behold i have 41 volts of ac.  i guess the brand new diode that come with the new stator is bad.  no return on electrical parts.  i think you can order just a diode  i will check later.  hopefully that will fix the problem and i can move on.  the whole thing needs rewiring which will be done.  ordered a fuel valve  the one on there is seeping a little.  shifter boot come in mail today.  one more question  if nobody can answer i might have to repost for 414-8 owners.  if you are sitting on tractor the right side of engine i have no bolts holding the motor down because it overhangs the frame rails just a little bit.  is that the way the 414's are  not causing any problems

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Betting if you look under the frame rail on that side, you'll see the bolts that go up into the oil pan.

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Check your diode per

 

 

Replacement diodes are available from Radio Shack

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276-1141  3 amp barrel diode   $1.99

 

call before making the trip 

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Thanks for the part number old iron  i will stop today after work and pick one up and hopefully that will take care of it

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Well i have run out of options.  tried new diode   still no dc volts  40 to 41 ac volts  i'm open for suggestions.  if none i'm gonna have to take to lawn mower shop   thanks for the help.  oh yea the bolts are under the frame rail.

Edited by Fishroe

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Stupid question, but did you put the diode in the right way?

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Where are you connecting your test leads when reading the voltage?

 

Negative lead should be connected to ground, and positive lead to the cathode side of the diode as shown below.

 

post-2221-0-01056700-1385174660_thumb.jp

 

Ignore the 12.0 shown on meter. Your charging voltage should be about 14.

Edited by rmaynard

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quick sanity check and meter check

 

measure the battery voltage in your car with engine off - should be around 12.6 ish

 

run the engine and the DC volts should go to 14 ish

 

the 3 amp circuit is just too simple in construction to be this evasive.

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There's something like a bad connection, bad meter.The most common problem is ground.You are insisting that it's the diode ,or the stator,I think not.

Pay attention to the squirrel..

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#1 wire goes from stator to diode then a short piece of wire with spade connector on the end of it. thats where i have the red probe from voltmeter. black probe goes to a starter bracket mounting bolt screwed into the block for ground. this lead wire has 41 volts ac. when i switch the meter to dc volts i have a "1" which on this meter means an open circuit to me. the same "1" you get if you cut the meter on and hold the probes in the air not touching. i'm assuming that should be an open circuit #2 wire from stator has 25 volts ac and a "1" for dc volts. its a small craftsman voltmeter. I thought the meter might have been screwing up too. so i checked battery voltage on my sears craftsman lawn tractor not running 12.55 dc volts. started up and had 13.75 dc volts. so meter seems to be working. the wheel horse has 12.55dc volts not running running it has the same reading. I actually tested for current to ignition switch then back to solenoid. getting 41 volts ac at solenoid. "1" on dc there too. i guess ac volts won't charge a battery. i bought a 3 amp diode from radio shack and stuck it on the end of the #1 wire so that makes current flowing through 2 diodes still no dc volts still 41 volts ac. the new diode that come with the new kohler stator reads like it is supposed to no current flow one way and 6.00 to 7.00 resistance the other way. the radio shack diode reads the same thing. going by kohler service manual test #3 check resistance from stator side of diode to ground you supposed to have 0.3 to `1.7 resistance my meter shows 0.00 which the manual says if it is 0 there is a short in the stator. i would think if the stator is shorted i wouldn't be getting all those ac volts. could i be getting ac voltage and not dc voltage if there is some kind of ground problem? i'm gonna figure this out sooner or later. like save old iron said this is a pretty simple system its not rocket science

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Try your stator test with the stator off the engine.

 

On the other forum you said you tested the stator on the 20K ohms scale. You are on the wrong scale. Use the 2 ohm scale if you have it on your meter.

Edited by rmaynard

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what is the model # of the craftsman meter ?  I need to see the manual for this meter.

 

Zero volts DC should show as 0.00 , not a 1

 

some meters have an AC DC range and auto select which function to switch too.

 

We need to find out why your meter is reading what I believe is overrange, not zero.

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Model 82141  the manual is available online  i have the one that came with it  i just read in the manual when checking for dc voltage if a "1" appears in in the display during a measurement the value exceeds the range you have selected  change to a higher range.   i selected 20 assuming that it would read up to 20 volts.  thats what i used on the craftsman tractor.  Oh now i get it craftsman multimeters only work on craftsman stuff :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  going to go do a recheck now  been at work today.  thanks guys  let you know what i find

Edited by Fishroe

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