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Dutch Commando8

Starter/generator k181 reverse poles from ccw to cw

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Dutch Commando8

Recently I found my self in some trouble: I ordered a Starter/generator in the US, I,m from Holland and had It shipped here with some help from Stevasaurus, thanks Steven :)

Placed the S/G on the motor and found out they send me the wrong one, counter clockwise in stead of clockwise....problem.

Sending It back to the States was not an option because that would cost me another 90 dollar or so.

I took the old and new S/G apart an could  find no difference what so ever

Here,s some pictures of the armature and frame, old and new 

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos543_zps0989bdde.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos544_zpsd1f742c6.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos542_zps20fabcbd.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos541_zps5dd4c3da.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos540_zpsecf1bdc6.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos539_zps34289221.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos534_zps5dfc7133.jpg

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r713/Jan_van_der_Zwaan/Wheel%20Horse/iphonefotos533_zpse4aba7e1.jpg

 

The advise I got from the Red Square forums was to change the field coils some how, and so I put the new armature in the old frame, just because It made sense somehow , in the process took out the new brushes and changed them with the old.

Placed the S/G and it works, the S/G turned the right way now, problem solved!

By taking apart the old S/G I also found out that the cause of all these trouble was a bearing that was worn out and created disbalance in the

armature.

So If you should have still the original bearing in your S/G maybe It,s a good plan to check it out and renew it or put some grease on it! :)

Hope this can be of any help for those of you with polarity problems and the luxury position to have an old and new S/G in possession 

Jan

Edited by vanderzwaan
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Save Old Iron

Jan, 

 

the advice given to change the field coils is the proper advice.

 

In a classic style DC motor, permanent magnets determine the strength and polarity of the magnetic field around the armature and therefore the overall strength and direction of the motor. In a starter generator configuration, where the output of the generator must be controlled, permanent magnets cannot be used. If permanent magnets are used, the output of the generator would be dependent entirely on its speed.

 

In the SG scenario, permanent magnets are removed and variable strength ELECTROMAGNETS are used instead. Electromagnets consist of an iron core (pole shoes in the SG) and a winding around the iron core (the field soils in an SG).

 

The DIRECTION in which field  wires are wound around the pole shoes determines the polarity of the electromagnet field created by the field coils. The polarity of the field coil / shoes in relation to the armature determines which way the motor turns.

 

To reverse the field coil / pole polarity, you MUST reverse the direction the wire is wound around the pole shoes.

Edited by Save Old Iron
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Dutch Commando8

SOI:

I,m really NOT an electrician and read your post a couple of times..is this you telling what I did in the wright words and proper English or is my starter generator abouth to explode?? :)

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Save Old Iron

The SG you repaired by using a new armature and bearings should work well.

 

If you choose to convert the new unused SG housing to support CW rotation, you will need to replace the field coils with CW wound coils - about $50 USD.

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Save Old Iron

The explanation offered about permanent magnets versus field coils is to remove any idea that reversing the wires to the SG will solve the CCW to CW problem.

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jrc0528

If you were to switch the field wire going to the case bolt and the other field wire going to the right brush in the picture you'd effectively reverse the winding of the motor, causing it to reverse rotation.

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Dutch Commando8

The explanation offered about permanent magnets versus field coils is to remove any idea that reversing the wires to the SG will solve the CCW to CW problem.

Thanks, glad I did not try that

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Save Old Iron

 

The explanation offered about permanent magnets versus field coils is to remove any idea that reversing the wires to the SG will solve the CCW to CW problem.

Thanks, glad I did not try that

 

no harm would be done to the SG, you would not have reversed direction by doing this.

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Save Old Iron

If you were to switch the field wire going to the case bolt and the other field wire going to the right brush in the picture you'd effectively reverse the winding of the motor, causing it to reverse rotation.

I have never tried this option but I believe the concept would work.

 

The issue might be with the routing of the modified field wires within the SG case. 

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