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stoneman

D 180 pump issue . . .

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stoneman

I was told that someone here had posted a way to check to see if the pump is putting out the right pressure. Mine goes fine on flat ground but slows down considerably on hills. Also starts to whine which can't be a good sign. Could the problem possibly be in the motor that's on the left side of the rear axle, or would you say it's definitely the pump? Thanks.

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pfrederi

Could be either or both.  You need to hook up a pressure guage and check the charge pump.  75-150 is good.  When you operate the midmount or 3 point should peg at 600lbs + at end of stroke.  You need to look at the Sundstrand manual for diagnostics. (look in teh mauals section under transmissions.

 

Is this a sudden onset new problem or a slowly developing issue/?

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JamesBe1

Yeah, it could be either/or/both.  The manual is the best place to start.  There are several threads around here discussing the diagnosis and repair of D series hydro systems.  They are not that much different from the rest of the Wheel Horse hydro systems.

 

Repairs in this area can get expensive, but you can save a lot if you do as much as you can yourself.

 

BTW, before you start tearing things apart, you should check the hydro oil and change the hydro filter.  That's the easiest troubleshooting step to start with.

 

Good luck and ask anything you want.  The rest of us are all learning our way along too.

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tommyg

Nice to know there's another D180 owner just down the road from me!

 

This sounds all too familiar. Went through the whole gamut of tests and possible issues. Mine was a dual problem. A pressure gauge attached to the pump is a great place to start. I'm still threatening to install one permanently into the dash. Just to keep tabs. Found at first I had pressures off the charts. Turned out to be a stuck implement valve. Once I corrected that, the problem still continued. Problem turned out to be the motor. But with the help of several of the guys here on RS, lapped the plate and got everything working great again. Start with the easy stuff first, oil level, bypass valve, oil filter etc and work from there. A lot of us have been there with this issue, so just ask questions!

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wheeledhorseman

Hi, and welcome to Dysfunctional D Zone. There's a fair few of us who've been there on the hydro front but if the answers you're getting seem a bit vague it's because I think that collectively we've discovered that diagnosis from behaviour and even pressure readings doesn't always lead to the main cause straight away.

 

Having said that it would i think be helpful to know a little more detail about the symptoms i.e. is the slowing down on hills an issue that gets worse the longer the tractor has been used or is it there from start up each time you use it. If you have an oil temp gage what sort of temp is the hydro oil reaching when the tractor has been working for a while?

 

Also useful to know what sort of gradient in terms of 'hills' we're talking about. I ask because all three of my tractors with hydros 'whine' at the rear when pulling loads, the heavier the load and the steeper the gradient the more they whine. I'd be interested to know from others if these transmissions were ever silent as I've come to the conclusion that it's a feature of the piston-piston type hydro which probably gets more noticeable as it gets older but doesn't appear to stop them working hard.

 

One final point is that if a tractor has an 8 speed and was slowing up hills then we'd look at the engine to find out why the loss of power. It's just another of the variables in the whole hydro mix and why a bit more detail would be useful.

 

Most of the D guys have way more experience than I and have done some outstanding work including tutorials posted on RS so if you don't get the support and advice you need here then I doubt you'll get it anywhere.

 

Andy

 

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coldone

Here is how I checked my pressure. This was after lapping the valve plate in the motor but before rebuilding the pump. Before lapping the plate in the motor my test pressure would drop to 0 when moving.

 

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stoneman

Thanks Guys for all the info. and advise. I've been a little sideways for the last, ahhh, who's kidding who . . .I'm always a little sideways. Since I switched out the bad pump I haven't had much of a chance to mess with it. The old pump was definitely shot. It'd move around for a few minutes, then it just stopped. The fact that the whining is somewhat normal is a little troubling. The new pump, which is used, isn't altogether shot, that's for certain. It does whine though, and slows way down on a hill. If I kick up the throttle it and further engage the forward lever, it whines like crazy, but slowly pulls the hill. this can't be right. I do have a brand new rebuilt pump on the way though, (Thanks Jo Jo) and I'm sure it's going to make a huge difference. I understand that some slowing under a load might be expected, but I'm sure this one is weak. No one would have bought one if this is how they performed.  I'll check the pressure coming out of this one before I replace it. What I guess I need to do now, since I have 2 bad ones, is gather any and all the info I can find, and learn how to rebuild these two. Is the info available here in the manuals enough to tackle these rebuilds. Thanks again guys. Good lookin' out!

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coldone

The pumpis only half the equation. If the pump is shot, more than likely there is damage to the motor as well.  The Ds are a little different hydro system since you have a separated pump and motor. Most hydros have the pump and motor as a unit so most people "swap" those hydros with a complete new one.

 

In a D, what ever goes through the pump also goes through the motor. If debris made it through the filter screen and got sucked up to the pump, then it gets sent right down to the motor. Refreshing the pump and motor is not as difficult as it sounds. The most difficult part is getting them off the tractor and back on. If you have the time (1 hr or 2) I did some vids on the the motor and pump refresh I did. 

 

I would strongly suggest that before you install the newly rebuilt pump, that you drop the transaxle, clean it out and refresh the motor.

 

The manuals are in the manual section,under transmissions I think. Its the sundstrand one.

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stoneman

Good point. I don't know what went wrong with that first pump, but I swapped it out without doing anything to the motor. I have a spare motor that I'll get off and take a peek at. What steps would you take to "refresh" it? And since I have the ears of all y'all "Dysfunctional D family members" . . . I really need a PTO pulley. Also . . . it was mentioned that the D pumps are a bit whiny. Is that a completely different Sunstrand than the one in my GT 14? Because it never whines. Other than about not getting used enough. Next year I'm going to have a 1/2 acre garden. It'l get used plenty.  

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JamesBe1

Not sure about the whineyness of the D's.  All my hydro's whine to some extent.  It's a pretty subjective judgement.  My D doesn't seem to whine at all when I have the mufflers off!  Just kidding, but I am sure you get the point.  It's hard to say what is too much whining.  It does have to do a lot with the condition of the pump and system.  A bad pump will likely whine more than a good one.

 

Keep your eyes open on ebay, you can probably pick up a used PTO pulley.  There is usually one or two D's being parted out at any one time.  If all else fails, you can post a wanted add in the classifieds here.

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