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gin

Raider 12 manual vs C120 hydro barebones

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gin

If you could have either one w/o attachments which would use choose ?

I haven't owned either one so any feedback will be helpful .

thanks

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kpinnc

Depends on the condition of both machines. A manual transmission has less to break (sometimes), but the hydro gives these tractors infinitely adjustable ground speed. Main pros and cons:

Hydros- faster when mowing and plowing. Much more expensive to repair IF you can find parts. Usually best to find a donor tranny and completely swap it out if you begin to have problems.

Manual- simpler, both with the way it works and when minor repairs are needed. BUT, the Raider 12 and 14 commonly used 10-pinion differentials. They had better traction due to limited slip, but the differential is far weaker than a 4 or 8-pinion differential. If you put it in a bind, particularly when coupled to a big-block Kohler- they can and do sometimes fail.

In a perfect world, which hypothetically means you found a NOS version of both tractors- it's all about what you will use the machine for. But now, the overall condition is probably more important. Both machines are equally rugged, but wear and tear on either tranny will make all the difference.

One more thing- The C-120 will be able to use most any attachment made from 1973 and up for B/C and 300/400/500 series machines. Converting the Raider to use those things is simple to do, but you will have to do it if you don't have pre-1973 attachments, particularly mower decks.

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Tankman

Wow! Such a problem. I would stick with the 8-speed only because I have three.

(Soon to be four 8-speeds when my 520-8 is delivered next week).

I have a '68 Raider 12 8-speed and two 400 series both 8-speeds. Love 'em.

But, always a but, I also have a '73 "No Name" :wh: 12hp automatic w/ electric PTO. I am truly amazed

at the way the auto handles, and the push to go & go faster is a pleasure. An automatic something or other from a BIG box store, NO NO NO. I laugh when I see someone purchasing one of those "things."

A very hard choice to make. Very hard.

Let the forum members know which way you decide. Interesting. Good luck! :eusa-think::eusa-think: :eusa-think:

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ericj

tankman i envy you dads first wheel horse was a 73 12 hp auto with a manual lift an electric clutch, so i am still looking for a nice one for my collection. i grew up driving that tractor

eric

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can whlvr

just get it over with and buy both,haha

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gin

kpinnc - I had no idea about the 4,8,10 pinion, interesing, thanks. I run a bucket loader off my gt14 and would like to get another WH that I can swap the loader to. Hydros are great for that but a manual could be ok for snow removal and I'm guessing the 4 pinion is the toughest of the three or which is the best manual trans that WH has to offer? I like the hydro but I just don't have a good manual and was thinking of giving one a go, although i'm still a bit fickle ( the c series attachment thing also)

tank, your tipping the balance to the raider... :0

I'm waiting on some breaker points to come in so I can finish my k321 off a GT14- removed the solid state module( gonna try to take some pics, different thread at a later time) b4 I move on the raider / c120.

thanks for the very helpful comments. :)

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Raider12

Just my 2 cents. I understand why mechanicaly the 10 pinion in the Raider is supposed to be weaker. But I have owned my Raider 12 for 23 years now and I have worked this poor tractor from pulling stumps, tons snow plowing, mowing and tilling. Never broke anything but the key way on the hub and axle. So unless your going to move a house or something crazy, I wouldn't tlet the "weaker" 10 pinion rear worry you at all.

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Whmaverick

Well, I was raised on a dairy farm working tractors of various sizes, worked on a west Virginia strip mine, owned and operated my own TLBs and rent dozers and excavators for my business. This said, these little red tractors can take a lot, but abuse is abuse! I own and work both, 8speeds and autos and choose one over the other for different tasks. I guess an 8 speed would be my choice if I had to choose. But I really enjoy opperating both for what they are. Great question, really makes you stop and think. My conclusion is that I'm glad I got both types to play with. Hee,Hee,Hee.

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Forest Road

8 pinion is the strongest . As for a loader on a c/300 guys recommend the 8 speeds. Or a hydro with Matt's foot control. The theory is to be able to have 2 hands on the wheel. I have a 522xi with power steering and hydro foot control. Your loader would go nicely on one of these.

I love my hydro but swear by the 8 speeds. If I could only have one I'd go with an 1-1/8" axle 8 pinion 8 speed.

Good luck

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855ownerJoel

I am for a manual transmission before any hydro. That is not to say the hydro is worthless, but the manual trans is much more durable and repairable. I also am a believer in the fact that you seldom are able to determine the care and maintenance that the previous owner kept on the equipment making it a cr** shoot as to how long the hydro will last.

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gin

thanks for the the additional comments, great info :)

seems like a lot of people love the 520's, anytime i see them on craiglist etc they are very costly. My WH is a 69' and like the older looking models . I'd love to have a early 60's models , they look so damn cool - kinda beefy but small at the same time. just a side question / trivia, what year did WH 1st intoduce power steering? I'm, gonna do a search for manual to power steering and that matt's foot control after this.

thanks

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Kevbo

The past four tractors I bought were all manual transmissions due to the same reason a lot of the members have been stating. The manual transmission are just so durable. However, the hydros that Wheel Horse made in my opinion just like Tankman said are WAY better than any box store tractor. My 212-H has been mowing a DANGEROUS hill (like if I shift my weight to the wrong side the tractor might tip over!!) for over 20 years! The hydro is still going no issues without ever having to be serviced. Most of the work I do will be with the manual trannys which are rather easy to flush and change the fluid which I started doing on all my newly bought tractors. As long as you take care of em' they are much less likely to "break". Even if they do, manuals are "easier" to fix. Keep us updated! :handgestures-thumbupright:

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