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sscotsman

The state of "Made in the USA" engines.

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Hey everyone, I maintain an Ariens snowblower webpage:

http://1stclass.myla...tychaos/Ariens/

and as part of that documentation, I have been keeping track of snowblower engines the last few years,

here is a very quick synopsis:

1960 to 2008 - 95% of "walk behind" snowblowers have Tecumseh engines, 4% have Briggs engines, 1% "other".

and almost all snowblowers, and the engines on them, are made in the USA, making the machines 100% US-built.

2000 - (more or less) Briggs begins making some small engines in China, and some are still made in the USA.

2008 - Tecumseh leaves the small gas engine market.

2008 - 2012 - the floodgates open for Chinese made engines.

2008 - 2012 - Briggs is only making 3 gas engines, used on snowblowers, in the USA.

2012 - the LAST ever US-made snowblower engines are built..Briggs shuts down the plant, and all production moved to China.

2014 - All snowblowers will have Chinese engines on them.

For a lot more detail, see this thread:

http://www.snowblowe...made-china.html

This means that this winter will be the last winter, probably ever, that a 100% "Made in the USA" snowblower will be available new.

both the machine itself and the engine on it.

it took 60 years, but the 100% made in the USA snowblower is now dead..

Most (but not all) snowblower bodies will still be made in the USA, but not the engines.

So, what the state of the Garden/Lawn Tractor industry?

im sure all push-mowers have Chinese engines on them by now..but how about Tractors?

Are there still Made in the USA Tractor engines out there?

Kohler?

perhaps some remaining larger Briggs engines still made in the USA?

are there still "100% made in the USA" Tractors? both the tractor and the engine both?

and if so, for how long?

thanks,

Scot

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I belong to a heavy equipment forum because of the machinery at work. A rep from China on the forum wanted our opinion on Chinese Excavators but said he didn't WANT to hear any BAD things. :laughing-rofl: Reminded me of the line from " A few good men" ......" You can't handle the truth." :canada:

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I bought a 16 HP Briggs & Strattion Vanguard in 1990, and an 18 HP Briggs & Strattion Vanguard in 2010. Both were built in Japan.

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and oh yeah, because I know it will come up! ;)

I will post this from the discussion thread on the snowblower forum (link to thread in post above)

Disclaimer - yes, I know..someone will bring it up! wink.gif I am aware that when I say “100% American-made snowblower, both the snowblower body and engine both†that is not *literally* 100% true! Because some *parts* are made overseas..The American-made Briggs engine likely has parts made in China inside of it, and perhaps the “Made in America†snowblowers do as well! But im not concerned about that.

This is my criteria:

If its made in a factory on US soil, by US workers, then im calling it “Made in the USAâ€

If its made in a factory on Chinese soil, by Chinese workers, then im calling it “Made in Chinaâ€

Im not concerned with the exact origin of every last nut and bolt.

thanks,

Scot

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Cant get away from it unfortunately. My brand new (2 years ago) Briggs and Stratton 7000w generator has a "Made in the PRC" sticker on it. (Peoples Republic of China) .

Mike............

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At the end of the day its all moot... America lost the jobs and the industry... was it because of US poor quality... most likely not...

You will read tales of how the over-sea-ers ripped off other's engine designs... again... not really the true issue...

The issue is the over-sea-ers are willing to work for a wage a 1/5th of what a US worker is willing to work for. Its the CEO's and company investors who demand a certain rate of return from their investments. American quality is not driven by work ethic... its drive by the bottom line profit margin.

I'm a Red State want-a-be here in CT but everytime I here "let the free market sort it out", these are the examples of the free market working for you.

Wow, letting that out makes me feel better, LOL!

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All I can say is the older ones that were made in the USA will last longer then the new made in china ones. Look at are WH's. That will just make the older ones worth more in my opinion. Its becoming a through away world and I see no light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited by smoreau

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I second that Vin! It's all about the profit. They'll ship it over-seas even if it only makes them $0.10 more per unit.

My sons class was having those rubber wrist bands made for a class mate that is sick. The company offered two options, ones made over-seas and the same ones made here in the USA. The over-seas one cost $0.25 less per band than ones that were made here in the USA. The kids decided to buy the ones made in the USA, even though they new it would cut into the money they were raising for the kid. I was very proud of them!

Maybe there is hope!!!

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I think alot of that stuff will be coming back here eventually. I know this is a little off topic (sort of). A company called Gerringhof is opening a plant here in Mn. They manufacture Corn and Grain heads for combines. I think that when a strong European company like this decides "Made in the USA" is the thing to do? Then maybe others will follow. They (Gerringhof) will still have their world operations in Germany but its a good step forward. I have a friend of mine that works for Toro in prototype development and he says that several of these PRC engines , that they end up using in R/D come here with egg shaped cylinders. They must need more Q/C over there. :flags-usa: :flags-usa: :flags-usa:

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I work for a large international company (your probably drinking coffee from one of our products right now, and we bought out that red cup company last year) About 10 years ago we looked into setting up a production plant in Chi-na had the building purchased and were building equipment for it (we manufacture all our own production equipment in house) Then the Communists said if your going to import your own equipment we want all the prints, oh and documentation of your process, trade secrets, formula's, and any other information you have so that we can copy it all and set up our own plant to compete with you....

Needless to say we ain't got a plant over there, and for our trouble they promptly passed a ban on all EPS foam beverage containers???

So all them companies that farmed out their work over there sold their collective souls for profit, then the Chinese beat em at their own game, copied everything, and put them out of business.

In the end we still have about 15 US plants 2 in Mexico, 1 each in Argentina, UK, Australia, Brazil, Bahama's, Panama, and a couple others that I am probably forgetting about. All the foreign plants only make product for use in their respective countries, with the exception of Mexico but you can thank the California environmentalists for that.

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It is a sad place we live in. Just pure I want, I want, I want, entitlement in society, that is the start of the problem, want more pay for less work. I specifically started buying Wheel Horse iron because it lasts. I went through several "junk" tractors and wanted something that worked. I hope some day we can get the manufacturing jobs back to the US, but until then I try to buy American whenever possible. We need to go back to building quality products that last and that will only then make the consumer confidence return and build the market back. I would rather pay a little extra for quality than pay less and have junk that needs to be replaced. Fireman, great job to your son's class for buying American!!!!!!!! OK, now I vented too.

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This is oh so sad. I always took pride in buyin american made cars & trucks but this seems to be a thing of the past. American assembled with foreign parts seems to be the norm. Im goin to hug my tractors just so ill feel better!

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im very impressed with all you guys with your american made quality, i have a 2012 dodge ram 2500 with the 6.7 cummins in it and love the truck, what i hate about it is the fact that it says FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT MEXICO. i have 2 VW tdi diesels also and cant believe how nice they are, i wish american cars were built as good as they are, not trying to put the big 3 down but the quality in there cars is crap there wore out in a few years. we need the quality control here, and like somebody above said it all goes back to more,more,more. what happened to toro, wheel horse is a terrible thing, toro wants to sell machines, the ponds wanted to sell you a tractor, there is a reason these horses are still pulling there weight.

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Oh I have to chime in............Many many of the comments made in the thread are true. Horribly true! US companies also placed manufacturing facilities in the PRC to not only get a product on the market cheaper but to also enter a huge emerging market in China. Millions of Chinese citizens are becoming upwardly mobile. They are better educated and making money and US firms needed to get a facility on that soil to get into that market and that of other Southeast Asia countries.

Another major contributor of the migration of our jobs for the middle class and the gutting of the US Manufacturing Sector was the high cost of unions. (Yes.....I can take the punishment of the union guys on here).

Unions were and are needed everywhere and not just in the US. (Ask a lot of those Chinese workers). But there were unions that got too greedy! Everyone deserves a sustainable wage but assembly line workers making 24 bucks an hour plus overtime in the late 80's in companies that are 60 to 80 years old with many retirees that live longer than ever and you also see where these company's bottom lines were going. Then add the greed of the company officers and Board of Directors and their salaries and the "whatever it takes to keep our stock prices up" and everything began to unravel. This included the quality of products that the US was known for!

Next add everyone suing everybody for stupid crap that added extra costs to manufacturing and government meddling with OSHA, EPA and DEP and it's a wonder that we manufacture anything at all in the USA. (I care about our environment and particularly clean streams but some of the mandates are unacceptable).

Manufacturing jobs will and actually are coming back. But it will take time and it will take wise men with common sense values and ethics and workers that are willing to put in the hours and not expect instant gratification in a world where many of the youth and too many of my generation expect nothing less than instant success with minimum output.

Wow! I wonder what I ate this evening that burst into my fingers!

Sorry for the long rant! I just miss the days of quality products and wonder what the next generation is going to do for jobs!

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boovac i have to agree with you, i am a proud member of the operating engineers and myself i have to agree with what you say, i have different views of what it stands for and i have to say im happy with my wage (who wouldnt be right) but what upsets me is the guys who got in the union right out of high school!! i came from a place where i made 12.00 an hr running a rock crusher, wash plant and fixing and hauling equipment, yes 12.00 an hr. i now make well over double that doing pretty much the same thing (running an asphalt plant) so when the boss comes to me and says we cant go on like this yes i will be willing to take a pay cut just to keep my job, here is the real kicker, my employer puts 9.75 an hr into my pention (yeh who wouldnt like that?) but i only get 1% of that. that is what the unions is doing for me. that really sucks

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My nickles worth----- The USA unemployment and national debt problem is so easy to solve , it's embarrasing that we don,t do it.

1. If it is not made in USA, don,t buy it ---- unemployment solved

2. If you don,t have the cash, don,t buy it. -- debt problem solved

Did unions cause some of the problems ? Probably. If you are a member of a society (union) that has the power to secure a higher wage for it's members than similar non members get, then the union should force it's members to purchase only union made products.

No, I don't believe any government should force protectionism. It is a personal choice. Help solve the problem, or be the problem.

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I second that Vin! It's all about the profit. They'll ship it over-seas even if it only makes them $0.10 more per unit.

My sons class was having those rubber wrist bands made for a class mate that is sick. The company offered two options, ones made over-seas and the same ones made here in the USA. The over-seas one cost $0.25 less per band than ones that were made here in the USA. The kids decided to buy the ones made in the USA, even though they new it would cut into the money they were raising for the kid. I was very proud of them!

Maybe there is hope!!!

God bless your son and his classmates for their decision and DITTO to the rest of the forums input; we all see it comin; maybe our kids will help do something about it when they hit the production era, if one will exists.
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The issue is the over-sea-ers are willing to work for a wage a 1/5th of what a US worker is willing to work for. Its the CEO's and company investors who demand a certain rate of return from their investments. American quality is not driven by work ethic... its drive by the bottom line profit margin.

Actually the wage issue is only a small part of it. The much bigger problem is the regulatory and taxation burden here that is absent in prc and other places. Deregulate and lower taxes and you'd see a big difference. The free market will work but not when it is at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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The issue is the over-sea-ers are willing to work for a wage a 1/5th of what a US worker is willing to work for. Its the CEO's and company investors who demand a certain rate of return from their investments. American quality is not driven by work ethic... its drive by the bottom line profit margin.

Actually the wage issue is only a small part of it. The much bigger problem is the regulatory and taxation burden here that is absent in prc and other places. Deregulate and lower taxes and you'd see a big difference. The free market will work but not when it is at a huge competitive disadvantage.

You're right. There are many reasons that production is overseas. There have been claims of a coming manufacturing revival in the USA - highly automated with fewer workers. I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe on high end equipment. Getting good service and support on a commodity small engine is not typical anymore.

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I will have to agree with the wages being a small part of the problem, I agree with enviromental protection but we have regulated it to the point we have tied our own hands, Its hard to compete when everybody is not playing by the same set of rules. Same problem with safety, I agree with it,but its became a industry here on its own accord taken way to far. I would like to blame lawyers,Insurance, and civil suits for it but I am not sure who to point the finger at there. And last but not least we need to quit buying all the little unneccessary trinkets from over there and quit sending them our hard earned money for garbage trinkets and toys that dont last 2 days. THEY ARE A COMMUNIST COUNTRY they couldnt conquer us on the field but they are going to own us anyway if things dont change.

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