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fourwheels0

1960 suburban 550

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fourwheels0

my suburban 550 has a clicking noise only in reverse. it sounds like it's only on the pulley side.

what might cause this?.

1st,2nd,and 3rd gears are all fine.

with the rear jacked up and running in reverse you can't feel the clicking with your hand on the diff.

it sounds the same whether it's jacked up off the ground or your driving it.

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stevasaurus

That is the #5010 transmission...check out this video and see if something does not catch your eye...or ear for what it might be. The video is of the #5010 trans like what you have.

http://s419.photobuc...TRANNYS0015.mp4

If I was to guess what it may be, I would say that you have a worn bronze bearing or 2 in the differential housing. If they are worn enough, the play could be enough to cause the pinion gears to bind and that may produce a click. The pinion gears are strong, the weak points are the axle gears, which chip, crack and/or break. I have been rebuilding some of Jake's #5003 & #5010 transmissions. We have replaced the axle gears in a few of them, and the bronze bearings were worn out in these transmissions.

Try this...put the rear end on blocks and put into reverse gear and run. You can grab either of the tires and stop it's rotation...the other tire will continue to turn in reverse. Try it with each tire. Do you have the clicking when both tires turn and does it stop when just one of the tires is turning??? With a worn bearing, the force in the trans in the opposite direction could lift a gear enough to create a binding which may come across as a clicking noise. :) Let us know.

Edited by stevasaurus
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fourwheels0

stevasaurus thanks.

darn it i think i'll have to do a tear down and hope for the best.

and yes it has popped out of 3rd a few times.

if it is worn bushings where can i get them?.

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stevasaurus

SUBURBANS & RJ 58/59 TRANSMISSION CROSS OVER CHART FOR WH #5003 and #5010 TRANSMISSIONS

DESCRIPTION..............................................................WH #......................VENDOR..........QUANTITY...........SIZE

BRONZE BEARING (AXLE)..........................................1503.......................CB-1618-12..........2..................1" X 1 1/8" X 1 1/2"

BRONZE BEARING (DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING)..........1517.......................CB-2224-14..........2..................1 3/8" X 1 1/2" X 1 7/16"

INPUT SHAFT & OUT END OF BRAKE SHAFT.............1519........................S8K ground..........4..................3/4" X 1 5/8" X 5/16"

CLUSTER GEAR SHAFT & 11/44 GEAR BASE............1502........................NICE 412-35........3..................3/4" X 1 5/8" X 3/8"

INPUT GEAR NEEDLE BEARING.................................1518........................B-108...................1..................5/8" X 15/16" X 1/2"

BRONZE BEARINGS (CLUSTER GEAR SHAFT............1504.......................EP-1214-12..........2..................3/4" X 7/8" X 3/4"

BRAKE SHAFT (NEEDLE) IF YOU HAVE THIS............1508.......................B-1212.................1..................3/4" X 1" X 3/4"

SEALS AXLE (FROM TORO ONLY)..(CAP)...................1257.......................83-2840...............2

SEALS INPUT SHAFT & BRAKE SHAFT (BALL BRNG)..1234......................741643 timken......2

SEAL BRAKE SHAFT (IF NEEDLE BRNG).....................1303......................7410 skf................1

Gasket material: Karropak 1/32 thick comes in a roll 12" x 36" tan in color...$ 6.00 at Auto Zone

You can get all this from Motion Industries. I would say, yes, you are going into it. Did you try the block thing I mentioned above?? I am curious to see if it made a difference. If you need to just change out the bronze bearings, they are cheap. Keep us informed, I will be here to help in any way I can. :)

Edited by stevasaurus
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fourwheels0

i'll try the block thing tomorrow and let you know.

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stevasaurus

Do not be afraid to grab one of the tires and stop it from turning, it will not flip you over. It is made to do that because of the differential. You will be amazed at how easy it is to do that. Try it on both side and see if the clicking stops on one side or the other....I think it would tell me that the problem is in the bronze bearings. It is possible that the problem is in the bearing that is under the 44 tooth gear (brake shaft gear) in which case the clicking may not go away. Sorry to use you as a Ginny pig, but this is where I am at in trying to trouble shoot these transmissions. Please let me know what you find out.

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fourwheels0

hey no problem. i will definitely let you know tomorrow.

i read your thread on rebuilding these and i'm just hoping that i don't find any surprises (the broken bolt holes).

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stevasaurus

I hope so too...that is about the worst that can happen....take the bolts out by hand (not impact) and you should be OK. Drain it first, then put the trans in a vise with the input pulley side down. Take off the brake shaft side first. You may want to check for burrs on all the shaft ends first and file them down...makes it easier to take the side plates off. Take out the bolts on the input side while it is in the vise so you can loosen the casting from the input side. Take off the gear on top of the cluster gear shaft (you may nave to shift the casting a little to make this happen). Then take out the gear and spline shaft through the fork gears. AT this point, you may want to pop the trans into 2nd gear (lift up the lower fork one notch)...this will make it easy to lift out the cluster gear shaft. Move the fork gears out toward the center and remove the forked gears. What is left is the 11/44 tooth gear and the differential and the input gear it self. You have to take the casting and move it around to get it to bypass the brake shaft gear and the differential. Those little bolt thingys and the casting that hold the bolts for the seat are tight and that is what you have to maneuver around. Once you get the casting off, you can just lift out the differential and the brake shaft gear...and then the input gear it self. That is it. :) Pop off the seals on the axles and see what the bronze bearings look like...when new, they look uniform with about 1/16" of bronze all the way around. A worn one will not have much bronze on the top and bottom. You can look down the axles toward the differential housing to see if the bronze bearings there look like they should...they should look like about 1/16" of bronze all the way around. If they look bad, you have to tap out the roll pins in the pinions and remove, and then tap out the roll pins in the axles to take out the axles and the axle gears. Your side plates should be nothing but bearings now...see if they turn easy...sound good or need replacing. There should be 3 closed bearings and 4 what I call open bearings, unless you happen to have the needle bearing on one end of the brake shaft. Check and clean all gears, especially the axle gears. At this point, let's see what you find and go from there. Take some pictures of what you have in there...there are some different possibilities. Do not worry about labeling parts, there is only one of each and I can walk you through putting it back together. Really, it goes back together in reverse of how you take it part...if you do it the way I mention. :)

Let see what you find and go from there. You will have to cut your own gaskets for the side plates...not hard. Gasket material is available at Auto Zone. Money...gasket material is about $6...bronze axle bearings $2.50 each...differential housing bronze bearings $3.24 each...open bearings (S8K) $13.84 each... the closed bearings should be OK...brake shaft seal and input seal are around $4+ each...the axle seals are only available from Toro about $18/19 each. We may have to look for any gears that may be bad...not a big deal and not expensive for used. Judging by what you are telling me about your trans, I would figure somewhere between $60 and 100 to make like new and get another 50/60 years service...definitely worth it. Did not want to scare you, but I thought you may want to know what you are getting into. money wise. Also, no special tools are needed...although a good set of punches for the roll pins help a lot...$10/15. I also recommend a bottle of Rock&Rye on hand...when things get a little rough...have a sip. :happy-jumpeveryone: I guarantee you will be able to do this, and enjoy it and feel like a million bucks when you take her out for that first ride. The Rock&Rye is very important. :bow-blue:

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fourwheels0

well it clicks no matter which wheel i grab and stop.

it sounds like it's coming from the front right side of the trans. (sitting on the tractor). would that be the 2nd,3rd gear bushings?.

how much oil is supposed to be in there?.

i put a little over a quart in.

i really appreciate all your help on this as this is my first venture into one of these.

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Lars

it should be 1 1/2 qts on it..

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stevasaurus

I'm done guessing now...could be too many things. I have not heard your clicking sound, so you are on your own with this. If you think you can run the transmission for about fifteen minutes at about 1/2 throttle without making maters worse, I would put the horse on blocks...drain the oil and put in about 2 qts of diesel fuel. These 3 piece transmissions can be very messy with the old oil leaking out when you take off the side plates. The flushing will clean most of that and you can drain that out and make the job much nicer. Have plenty of paper shop towels on hand. There is no drain plug on these trannys...take out one of the back, bottom side plate bolts to drain the trans. Jack up the front of the horse enough to drain as much out as possible. I am leaning toward the needle bearing (WH # 1518) that sits in the input shaft being bad at this point (not a guess :) ). I use an old metal paint tray for putting the parts in....works for cleaning the parts also. :bow-blue: Ya ready??? :)

There is a plug just below the right axle in the side plate. You fill with oil until it starts to run out of this hole, it is actually just a little more then a quart. Filling is a pain in the butt...there is a fill plug on the top back of the trans...you can take the seat off and use one of those holes...I like to pull the shifter and fill in this hole (fastest).

Edited by stevasaurus
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fourwheels0

lol well it looks like i'm in for some messy fun.

on a side note i did get this today hoping it was a complete rear but nope. oh'well i can sell off these parts and hopefully pay for my repairs or maybe get enough to buy a good complete rear to swap into mine.

SAM_0175_zps21089863.jpg

SAM_0173_zps098775df.jpg

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fourwheels0

just got off the phone with the guy i got the 550 from and he's giving me another trans. :) .

this will make things much easier. i'll redo this one and put it in then redo the original at a later date.

i guess i'll be selling these extra parts i got lol.

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TT

In case you didn't know, the extra parts are what's left of a 1961 551.

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fourwheels0

TT thanks. i wasn't quite sure.

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fourwheels0

ok i tried to put a video up but it's taking way too long to load to photo bucket.

how can i put up a 20-30 second video here.

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stevasaurus

Best bet is photo bucket Mike. I know that is slow, but once you have it there the link works fast.

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fourwheels0

ok after messing with the camera and lowering the settings i think this will work.

caution to suburban owners this sounds ugly lol.

click on the link.

http://s400.beta.pho...699237.mp4.html

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buckrancher

sounds like the differential gear to me #3502

Brian

Edited by buckrancher
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clemedc

I had one make that noise along with other problems (Steveasaurus may remember) but the TAP TAP was the input shaft TAPPING I had to re- seat the closed side input shaft bearing to remove excess play. But mine made the noise both b4 and after an overhaul with all new bearings but when I installed the new bearings I did so just as the old ones were, which was incorrect.

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clemedc

Well crap my tranny was a 5007 on a 551 sorry

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fourwheels0

well we tore into the first trans and it's not good. the diff gears are all broke. this ones junk for now.

SAM_0193_zps947c6c01.jpg

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stevasaurus

Mike, you have the 11/44 brakes shaft gear in there. That makes it a later 1960 model. The bull gear is part of the differential housing. Did you pull out the differential and take that apart?? Nice mess you have there, but it will clean up easy. Take out the roll pins holding the pinion shafts in and then the roll pins holding in the axle gears. Let's see if that stuff is OK...pictures please. We should be able to get the differential housing if that is all you need, but you do need the newer style. Count the teeth on that bull gear when looking for another part...I think you will count 44 teeth.

I would say that is a typical used transmission that you would buy from someone at a show for $25 to $75. Some are better and some are worse. My point is..for the other people on here...if you think that you can through diesel or kerosene in something like this and think it will flush it out and it will be OK...well...good luck with that. :bow-blue:

Also, that is not the #3502 differential...#3502 is the number for the older style...about 33 teeth.

Edited by stevasaurus

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stevasaurus

Here is the link to the manual Mike... :)

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/492-4004.pdf

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fourwheels0

steve thanks for the link.

here's some pics of the carnage lol.

the 11/44 has a chunk out of a tooth.

and the diff has 1 gear with a few teeth missing and the ring gear has 4-5 chunks missing.

all the rest of the gears look good so far.

hopefully once everything is cleaned there's no more surprises.

there is 1 tab broke on the center case.

SAM_0194_zps338f76a3.jpg

SAM_0195_zps2e4983c4.jpg

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