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castoff

What is the "benchmark" of restoration?

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SousaKerry

As the saying goes "To each his own." ask 100 people you'll get 100 answers. I have a 655 done up about as close as I can get it to original but with SS fasteners and I am not ashamed to admit that I drive it around all year get dog crap on the tires and scratches on the hood, about a week before the MI show I drag it out give it a good bath and touch up the scratches. From 10 feet it looks great get any closer and you will see the worn and bent steering wheel, wrong dash decal, never did do the rims, a little rust on the hub caps and the deck sounds like hell. But it is still my baby and a trailer queen in my eyes.

I also have a few others that go from workers to wrecks to rollers with no engine or non running and a ratty old puller. But the other tractor I bring to the show is my C-125 worker that is more of a C-175, it's ugly, mean, and nasty but boy is it fun to drive around all weekend. Will I ever turn it into a trailer queen..Hell No! And if you try to judge either one I'll probably tell you where to go.

Point is this hobby is too much fun to get all technical and the documentation for such probably doesn't exist. Toro can't even track any of the serial numbers cause someone tossed the records out years ago if they were even kept at all. Each dealer did their own version of prep and installed options after they left the factory, and it wasn't as if they were made in the millions like autos or even close to the numbers that the more popular of farm tractors were. They were a smaller regional manufacturer with no distributors out west and in the deep south, yeah they made em under license in Europe but they didn't have the following or backing of a JD, Cub, or Sears.

For a company that started out in a garage and was eventually buried and died under corporate greed it is amazing that they are collected and restored at all to the degree that they are now.

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varosd

Now if this was a 1969 Chevy Camaro ZL-1...then I would have everything part back to complete OEM. otherwise these are "drivers" or AKA "workers"

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3609horse

That's why I don't restore, I recondition. Everybody has a choice to do with their tractor as they see fit. There can be no right or wrong if you are happy with it. Gene...

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855ownerJoel

I like to stay as close to origional as possible, but part availability, and choosing pant color will never be exact. Some of the parts are becoming very hard to find. I still want all mine to be functional while I still want them to look good. I get a lot of people who stop and say, heh, how old is that tractor? This hobby is more than just trying to relive the past to me, it brings people together doing things they love and talking about memories.

I like origional, sometimes even untouched, but like to see tractors that were done with pride. I am not into the tractors that are chopped up or changed into something they were not. But thats just me, to each there own. (In fact some have made me kinda sad). I think we all have to remember that life is short so lets have fun and make memories with family and friends.

Now where is my red spray paint can? Let these tough tractors that were made with pride and brought memories live on and make more memories for years to come! May I live to be an old man sitting under an oak tree talking to my friends and family about the fun that was had and the work that these little gems are able to do!

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can whlvr

i think this is a great topic,i cant add anything that hasnt allready been said,have fun,have a great reliable,versatile,easy to work on machine for not a ton of money,i am very lucky to have a bit of all aspecks of the hobby,a trailer queen that i completely tore apart and redid,to a beater that has been robbed of all good parts,to some real good workers ,thats what is nice about garden tractors,its reasonably afordable to own more than one

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BOWTIE

I LIKE THE ORIGINAL LOOK MYSELF. I DID THE MUSCLECAR THING IN THE 80's-90s WHEN IT WAS SOMEWHAT AFFORDABLE. I RESTORED THEM TO SELL FOR A PROFIT, THAT'S HARD TO DO NOW WITH THE PRICE OF NOS PARTS TODAY. THE WHEEL HORSE TRACTOR ARE EASIER TO DO AND PARTS ARE EASIER TO COME BY. THE ONLY THING I THINK IS EXPENSIVE IS A NICE SEAT. I HAVE BOUGHT AND SOLD 15-20 TRACTORS IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS. I FIX THE THE MECHANCIAL ITEMS,CLEAN,POLISH AND USALLY PAINT THE DECKS. I USE THE CORRECT FASTNERS AND PLATING. I RESTORE THEM THE BEST I CAN WITHOUT SPENDING A TON OF MONEY ON THEM. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A BUYER WALK AWAY BECAUSE IT IS ORIGINAL AND NOT JUST SLAPPED TOGETHER .

IT'S ONLY ORIGINAL ONCE AND KNOWN AS A SURVIVOR AND THEH A ORIGINAL RESTORED. DO WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD. TO RESTORE A TRACTOR LIKE A CAR YOU COULD SPEND $2000 OR MORE ON IT. JUST ENJOY DOING IT, I DO. JUST MY TWO CENTS.

BOWTIE IN OHIO

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HorseFixer

I dont know what I do is called :dunno: I call em a Refresh and Rebuild mostly because how can I do a restoration when I cant even get the exact paint Wheel Horse used which incidentally in the early years of the Round Hoods came from Niles Chemical Paint here in my Hometown (still in buisness here today) I have an old 78 year old friend of mine who is retired and worked in the coatings lab and was involved in mixing the paint. I was a stern believer of using Automotive Type paint Like Dupont or PPG but the past two tractors I spruced up 417A and the 520 Snow Chucker were done with 100% Valspar. Like Kevin, I have done some modifications along the way that I feel Improved the tractor.

The way I feel about it :scratchead: with the condition I get most of my Tractors in. :eusa-think: Anything I do to them is an Improvement. :handgestures-thumbupright: The main thing is like has been said already is, Just Have Fun and Enjoy Yourself. :eusa-think:

Cheers :beer: ~Duke

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castoff

I'd like to thank everyone who responded. The opinions were certainly varied and most were quite interesting. Although I have seen many Wheel Horse tractors at shows and in print, I have no real background in them. I had no idea about the problems that you gentlemen face with this brand and upon learning about those issues, that explains a lot about the replies given. When companies like Wheel Horse began manufacturing garden and lawn tractors, I think it fair to say that they never imagined that their product would be "collected" in the future. Therefore, accurate record keeping did not seem very important. I face that problem with my choices of GT's and I find it very frustrating on one hand but also intriguing on the other. I am constantly on the lookout for "old paper" that will help me unravel some of the mysteries. Fortunately, paint colour is not one of those mysteries. This foray of mine into Red Square was done with the best of intentions to find out what this groups thinking was on a couple of key issues that are close to my heart. I hope that most of you found my questions interesting and that it gave some of you pause to reflect on what you do and why you do it that way.

I make no conclusions nor any judgments. As always.......your tractor, your dime and your time. And I totally agree that this hobby should be about having fun and sharing good times over a common interest.

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papaglide

What a very interesting post. I enjoyed reading it and I am glad that castoff asked the question. Neat!

Carry on!

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546cowboy

I just try to bring these pieces of American history back to working order. I do spend the time to make them look the way they should. I don't mind changing to a newer engine. Yes if I can find an original Kohler without having to spend more than the tractor is worth I will go that way. In the last few years people think everything they have, no matter what condition, should bring a premium price.

I never use the word restored for anything I have. Everything I have is either just the way I got it or "REFURBISHED". The refurbished tractors are ready to go to work and they do look nice because I have pride in my work. It pleases me to see one of these Wheel Horses in their red glory.

 

These pictures show you where this tractor came from to the refurbished working tractor it is now.

 

 

post-1334-0-45812500-1376428063_thumb.jp

post-1334-0-90328200-1376428078_thumb.jp

post-1334-0-94857700-1376428097_thumb.jp

post-1334-0-82774700-1376428117_thumb.jp

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Patrick Reese

My son and I are currently restoring our first Horse. Through the restoration the thought process is that we are going to do it up nice, but there is a limit to how far we are going to go. It's only a Garden Tractor. Not a Show Car.. and that's not to diminish it, we will probably get more joy out of it when it's done than I did out of my 1964 Pontiac 2+2 that took over 6 years and many thousands of dollars to restore.. in the end I hated the car because it was too nice, and cost too much money to do. When I finally sold it I didn't get anywhere near the money invested in it back. When our Horse is done, we would not lose any money if we decided to sell it. But I don't think we would ever sell it!

 

WH26_zps11dfb7a8.jpg

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Jeff-C175

 

When I finally sold it I didn't get anywhere near the money invested in it back

 

Someone said a while back:

 

"We usually will spend TWICE what something is worth when we purchase, and when we decide to sell only get HALF of what it's worth"

 

Too true!

 

I sure wish I never sold my '62 LeSabre...

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Wheel-N-It

 

 

When I finally sold it I didn't get anywhere near the money invested in it back

 

Someone said a while back:

 

"We usually will spend TWICE what something is worth when we purchase, and when we decide to sell only get HALF of what it's worth"

 

Too true!

 

I sure wish I never sold my '62 LeSabre...

 

Or my '62 SS Impala.............................................

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specialwheelhorse

I do not consider myself a restoration nut I really feel I;m preservation minded

I do get involved with steering problems and I love to rebuild engines A couple dozen

at least, but body work and paint skills are lacking. All I really want to do is

preserve well enough that the next owner won't have to much trouble restoring.

I feel most are much better than I at this so I'll just keep these babys in suspended animation

for a few short years then someone else can really do a job on them that they deserve.

 The Old goof in TEXAS            Jim Rodgers

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neil

To do a Restoration so that it is factory perfect is impossible purely as there is no such word as perfect .

 The end result of shiney oversprayed paintwork is merely how the restorer/ preserver choses it to be .

Knowone can replicate factory conditions /methods of construction or materials of construction . This hobby is purely about enjoying the brand & preserving the brand .

So in theory there really is no such word as restoration . Preservation should be the word used to describe  what we do here .

We all do little bits n bobs to the tractors to PRESERVE the tractor whether that is a complete rebuild &respray or just change the spark plug. 

 

Just my opinion anyway

 

Most of all enjoy what you do & have fun doing it  & being anal about it can actually stop you having fun

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Aussie

I agree with 546cowboy - refurbished or rebuilt works for me. I take a 30 year old tractor and want it to work for another 30 years.

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castoff

Since this thread has been revived and several new posts have been made, I thought that I would return and comment further.  I am not here to disagree with any of the opinions expressed. Each of you obviously have your own criteria and motives.  The hobby is still rather young but it is gaining momentum annually because it is AFFORDABLE.  Lawn and garden tractors do not need very much real estate compared to other alternatives.  Currently, they are fairly affordable BUT.... I see prices beginning to escalate.  I also see enthusiasts getting into the after-market parts business because of the growing demand for items that have not been in production for decades.  I see old manuals being re-printed or converted to DVD's.  Attendance at tractor shows is also increasing even though the cost of showing the tractors is rising.  

 

All of this tells me that changes are in the wind for the hobby and those changes will come about as a direct result of the higher costs involved. I think it fair to say that if one has to pay a high price to purchase a restorable tractor and then pay high prices for after-market parts, then the quality of the restoration work will rise accordingly. Eventually, we will see judging take place for those who wish to enter their tractors.  At some shows, judging is already taking place whether the entrants realize it or not.  Ballots are handed out to the paying public and they are asked to vote for "Favourite Tractor",  "Best Display", "Best Restoration"  and so forth. I deem this to be the proverbial thin edge of the wedge. 

 

Competitions have a way of feeding on themselves and tractor shows themselves are in competition with one another. 

 

I have seen tractors for sale on E-Bay and C/L and the Seller has used the words "Fully Restored" when it is blatantly obvious that a proper restoration was never done. Telltale signs are overspray, missing parts, improperly installed parts, wrong parts, poor quality paint, evidence of dirt and rust in places could not be addressed without dismantling the tractor.  The experienced eye sees all these things and knows that in order to correct all these deficiencies, the tractor must be stripped to the bare frame and any work performed by the former "restorer" will have to be done over.  So who in their right mind is going to pay big bucks for such a tractor?  You are far better off searching for an untouched barn find and doing that one up instead.  Ken B has it right.  The OEM often turned out a product that was rather inferior in fit and finish.  Most serious restorers will produce a much superior product.  But let's set aside the paint issue for a moment. 

 

To me, there are other considerations if one is trying to duplicate how a tractor was when it left the factory. Choosing the correct hardware is one aspect. Painting nuts and bolts that received paint on the assembly line should be done but installing fresh zinc plated hardware where the factory used it is also important.  Duplicating the wiring harness using the correct gauge and colours along with the correct terminal ends for authenticity.  These are small things but they do make a difference to the end product.  Trying to find the correct tire sizes and tread patterns can be frustrating and one might have to install tubes in order to save the old rubber, even though the tires were originally tubeless. That is a small but necessary concession in some instances. 

 

The thing about this hobby is that it is an ongoing learning experience and to many, that is a large part of the enjoyment. Rarely does one turn out a near perfect product the first time around but as you continue to perform restorations, your skill level should increase and you will learn from your mistakes.  For me, there is a difference between doing the very best you can and just saying that "it's good enough". 

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jaebo74

It seems, I can't have a freaking hobby that the hipsters won't try to destroy.

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19richie66

I use to rag on my dad when he would bring home a tractor,get it running,spray paint it and call it done. He would throw a motor in it if it needed it, use whatever color red he had on the shelf to paint it and then start looking for another one. Now I get it. It was fun and that's why he did it. He met a lot of people at the shows that he became good friends with and hopefully I can take up where he left off. My wife ended up with one of his tractors and she wants it blue. Guess what......it'll be blue. I have another that was a parts tractor that will end up a custom "rat rod" type tractor with more rod than rat. I even have one that may end up with a big block buick in it if everything falls into place. Guess my dad would be ragging on me at this point. I plan on enjoying them. If someone looks at a tractor that I built and it brings a smile to there face, my job was done right. Have fun with it. I am.

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56flatbed

I am a certified car nut.  Hot rods, muscle cars, street rods, trucks, classics, I like 'em all.  I have owned many over the years and still have a few, which is why the WH space is a little limited.  I have seen the car hobby change a lot over the last 40 years or so, but the only thing that drives me crazy is the trend to over restore. This in turn leads to cars that are not even trailer queens, they are way past that!  I personally like to enjoy my vehicles.  They are kept in good condition, and I take pride in them, however, the Trans Am pictured in my avatar currently has rubber stuck to the lower quarter panels!  That means it occasionally gets run the way it was made to be run.  My point is, I will never care about a benchmark for restoration of my WH tractors.  I refuse to take away all the enjoyment of working on them, and using the tractor the way they were meant to be used.  By the way, if you see my car in a show, it will have a "Do Not Judge" sign in the window.

 

Just Sayin'

Wally :text-merryxmas:

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eb in oregon

Here's where my head is at......

People need to quit over-thinking these tractors and have fun with them.

I totally agree. However the problem lay's with "people" involved in judging a "vintage" item not taking into account the processes or technology even present during the item's manufacture. Obviously lacquer and powder coat are superior to the original finishes, so if someone uses them and it is judged "fine" then a precedent is set. Totally ignoring that such a process wasn't available during the manufacture of the item. They appear to pretty much look for "pretty."

 

I'm sort of new to this sort of thing, I'm a "gun guy." but the same thing sort of predominates that field of collecting. Actually, it is almost the reverse for some of them. If you do anything to a firearm, it is "screwing with history." Yet, sometimes you just have to do something to fix it. Yet, the "collecting" of vehicles has evolved into a fantasy world. Car collecting. No car has ever won a trophy with an original or factory duplicated finish for many years. Any winner is sure to have a much superior finish than any original factory vehicle. The same mindset is leaking into this sort of "collectibility" and the showing of such. So, is it "original, or like original," or is it an entirely new class of garden tractor?

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RMCIII

:twocents-02cents: "castoff".. If you truly want to understand what a good guide is, talk to a "tractor" collector.... I mean a farm tractor. I do know they use a method. But there are slightly different methods, depending upon, the year... Never did get to wrapped up in it myself. I spent most of my "learning years" with muscle cars and hot rods. Now, like many of us, I just like to have fun... If there is something on the market that is going to make the GT look great, but is not true to "originality", it really does not bother me. The GT was meant to be used...I may one day, have some trailer "queens" but it will fall in line with the farm tractors, not the GT type... Have fun with it,  enjoy it, even if you get in back to "original" specs, most likely, you will have 3 times the amount in the GT vs. what it is worth. Definitely not the case if you restore a "muscle car", or say a 30's - 40's hot rod. < You could spend $10's of thousands on a proper restoration. If it is done correct, you will be able to re-coop that and then some....Yes, I know, model, options, ect also play into that equation. But for the most part, you really can't loose, if you know what the GP want, and if it is done right it will bring a nice $$ at an auction. Rambling again... Sorry all. Point is, they were made to be enjoyed..... :handgestures-thumbupright:

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i967mustang

I do my wheel Horses the same way I do my Mustangs, The way I want them to look!!! Its my tractor, I'm the one who has to look at it all day while its working. I don't like dented up rusty stuff, so I fix the dents and repaint them. I use Base coat clear coat paint on them and am not even worried about whether or not they look original. I have a C160 with a white grille and chrome tailpipe, and I have a Charger 12 with a dirt blade that is painted BLUE. they both look good and work good, just build it the way you want. If you restore to original colors and everything perfect are you going to want to work that tractor? I wouldn't, so I build them nice and use them like they were intended to be used.

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dodgemike

A common thread I am seeing is

We all like mechanical things.

And the older ones connect us to

Our past. Usually a happy time

For most.

The other common thread I am

Seeing is build your tractor the way

You want it. There is room for

Everyone. I respect the piece

That someone took the time to

Make assembly line perfect. I

Also respect the worker that keeps

On going year after year. I did

Rattle can Dads old C 121. And

People are amazed what I can do

With that old tractor. One thing

We all agree on is they dont make

Them like that anymore.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

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wheeledhorseman

From time to time an old thread pops up near the top of the pile that I somehow missed the first time round. It's pretty much all been said but the key word to my mind in the last post just has to be 'respect'. 

 

Since joining RS about two and a half years ago now I've been impressed by the positive and supportive nature of this community in that whether you're expert or novice, seeking to achieve 'factory' and beyond, creating a custom, or just plain restoring a tractor to working order so you can use it you will find kind words and help here.

 

It's a fun hobby and RS is a fun place to be and after all,no matter what an owner decides the term 'resto' means to them, it's another horse saved.!

 

Andy

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