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groundhog47

Please Help Understand.........

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groundhog47

I trust and do not doubt information posted or discussed relatin' to WH or Kohler, but could someone explain what fails on the Kohler balance system that warrants removal of gears. It fears me to think of the engine "blowin', and I hear a "tick" that may have always been present (valve or "them"). It seems similar to Tecumseh flat head "tick" which I always assumed was valve lash.

Do these gears give/render an appreciable balance effect at low rpm only or throughout, and are they difficult to remove. Have a K-241P that will replace crankshaft and have never seen inside 'cept for pictures, but runs smooth at high and low so figure must have balance system.

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Don1977

They have needle bearings in them that ware out causing them to lock up. They are not hard to remove with the engine a part and the crank shaft out. I just used a chisel on the snap rings. I think TT said you have to bust one gear to remove them with the crank shaft in.

Have you removed the head to check if it's carbon build up.

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TT

Extremely doubtful that a K-241 has the counterbalance gears ~ especially a pump engine.

The counterbalance gears were designed & installed as an attempt to dampen the 'thump' of the crankshaft counterweights (more prevalent in the 321 & 341 engines) - which means less vibration for the operator.

The gears are much heavier on one side. My best guess is that they explode because the shafts and the needle bearings become worn, which essentially allows the gears to "flop around" until they self-destruct.

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tommy3horse

Hello;

I have rebuilt several K241"s and all had the balance gears. Make sure you get 'em tight (to specs) and forget them. I have left them out of one 12 hp motor without issue. I certianly wouldn't leave them out of a 14 or 16 hp, you would notice the vibration for sure.

Good Luck!

Tom

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groundhog47

Don1977: Will check for carbon, thanks

Terry: Will soon remove sump and find out for certain, thanks

Tom: Will do, thanks

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JC 1965

I have a kohler mag. 14 hp that i got free 2 years ago. It sat in my barn until this summer. I finally got around to pulling the head, oil pan, etc. Everything was fine except the balance gears had a lot of play in them. I asked for help on here and TT reccomended removing the balance gears and told me in detail how to break the top gear with a chisel to remove it, the bottom gear can be removed without breaking. I followed TT's instructions and that engine is running like a new one and i can't see any vibration in it. Then my neighbor ask me to remove the balance gears from his old K321 ( 14hp ) which were loose also and he is very happy with the engine, no more vibration than before. Terry made a beliver out of me. :eusa-whistle: Thanks TT !! :thumbs2:

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Buckshot 1

:) Every K-series that I have re-done, wether it is refreshing/rebuilding, if it has balance gears they are the 1st thing to go in the scrap can. I do not care if is an iso/solid mount engine. All the time and money that we put into these engine they are not worth putting those gears back end. The only difference I see without the balance gears in vibration is at idle. That is just my take on the subject, but everyone has their own take on wether to or not to leave them in or out. :flags-usa:

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JC 1965

Don, I agree 100%. :eusa-whistle: I couldn't have said it better myself. :handgestures-thumbup:

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Buckshot 1

:) Jerry, I see you reside in Milford. I was born and raised in Jackson a few to your east. Have good one. :flags-waveusa:

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Tap53

Just my thoughts on balance gears..

I thought they made a new style balance gear for the single K, all I have worked on is 482,532,582,662, any way, I would think that if there is a vibration at idle there is

also one at full throttle, except the frequency is so high it is not notice and there has to be some crushing damage being done to the bearings and crank stress on the heavy side even though its not noticeable by looking at the engine, and the thought is, Gees, That baby sure runs smooth at full throttle, and if the balance gear is to be removed would't it be best to have the crank balanced to lower the stress on the bearings and crank .I know that a exploding balance gear will more than likely wreck the block, but what will a stressed crank do if it breaks in time, just stop and drop into the oil and cause do damage, I dont think so.

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TT

They are dynamic counter balance gears and have nothing to do with the actual balance of the crank/rod/piston.

None of the earlier engines had them, nor does all of the later ones.

Crankshafts are balanced to the weight of the piston/rod and the flywheel is zero-balanced. No additional internal or external balancing is necessary.

Those pesky little gears are only there to squelch out some of the 'thump' commonly found in most big-bore / single cylinder engines.

I believe this was done mostly to make consumers happy ~ and to be a little more competitive with other engine manufacturers.

I personally like being able to tell when an engine is running. :handgestures-thumbup:

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Tap53

They are dynamic counter balance gears and have nothing to do with the actual balance of the crank/rod/piston.

None of the earlier engines had them, nor does all of the later ones.

Crankshafts are balanced to the weight of the piston/rod and the flywheel is zero-balanced. No additional internal or external balancing is necessary.

Those pesky little gears are only there to squelch out some of the 'thump' commonly found in most big-bore / single cylinder engines.

I believe this was done mostly to make consumers happy ~ and to be a little more competitive with other engine manufacturers.

I personally like being able to tell when an engine is running. :handgestures-thumbup:

Thanks Terry, Now I got It..

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boovuc

I agree with TT and it doesn't have to be a noise!. When I had my old 1975 Harley Sportster, I knew it stalled when I could read the Tachometer and Speedometer numbers. If it was running sweet, they were just a blurr at idle.

  • Haha 1

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Road-Track

Thanks Terry. Now I am sure those will not be reinstalled this weekend!

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JC 1965

:) Jerry, I see you reside in Milford. I was born and raised in Jackson a few to your east. Have good one. :flags-waveusa:

Wow!! Good to know Don. You know what they say," It's a small world " :thumbs2:

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Tap53

Terry,

INTERESTING ENGINE BALANCE ARTICLE

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groundhog47

Certainly do appreciate all the input. As of yet haven't popped crankcase sump to see what I have inside , crank came in yesterday. Am in no hurry till get other WH stuff taken care of and this ol" K may be without those innards. Runnin' on a piece of board un secured it runs up pretty smooth and tries to walk a little at idle, but whaqt can it do without somethin' holdin' it. Hopefully no balance gears are in it If there's no time limit on addin' to a post I'll get some photos and results later. Thanks all again

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groundhog47

Extremely doubtful that a K-241 has the counterbalance gears ~ especially a pump engine.

The counterbalance gears were designed & installed as an attempt to dampen the 'thump' of the crankshaft counterweights (more prevalent in the 321 & 341 engines) - which means less vibration for the operator.

The gears are much heavier on one side. My best guess is that they explode because the shafts and the needle bearings become worn, which essentially allows the gears to "flop around" until they self-destruct.

Terry, you are correct, finally found an IPB of 241 and no balance gears shown as opposed to the 3019Where hear a unrecognized sound. In this cool the 301 is quiter internally (?oil viscosity?), but will remain aware and feel better tht want have to remove 241 components when put in newly acquired crank. Thanks

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weien's wheel horses

I have taken the counter balance gears out of a k 341 due to milling the fly wheel and several other things but. it was due to the motor turning at high rpms if left in side they would have flown apart does not vibrate that bad honestly and runs bad a@#

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groundhog47

After seein' another post on how to remove the gear, will definitely rid my 301 block of that time bomb potential!

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