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JimmyJam

Turn Key... and nothing!!!!

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I have just purchased a 1994 Toro/Wheel Horse #264-6 w/ Kohler CV14S.

I replaced the battery with a new one. I turn the key to start...and nothing!!!

I called the previous owner and he said to jiggle the fuse block and it will start.

Ahh, no! that didn't work! I replaced the fuses... and nothing!!! Help!!!! Is it ignition switch? or faulty wires to fuse block?

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Jimmy,

download a copy of the Demystication guide here

and check out the section for the 264-6 starting circuit.

Your model has 3 or 4 safety interlock switches and a starter relay that could be contributors to your problem. First step may be to checkout the safety switches are being engaged properly and the wiring to the switches are not corroded.

I'll be away all weekend but someone else may chime in to get you running.

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Thanks guys! Very helpful info, but I have to work this weekend. I will start checking things out as soon as I can.

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I have a 245H I mow with and early this summer I was mowing and took a break, gased up the tractor and went to restart it and nothing, after a little looking I seen the ground from the batt, where it bolts to the frame/engine block was loose I removed the bolt cleaned everything up and reinstalled the bolt and checked the other motor mount bolts that were also loose, and it started right up after that. might be something to look at.

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Thanks! Good thought! I started some investigation as to problem. Found that due to hood being cracked open (possible previous owner intention/frustration to "wiggle his fuse block". The solenoid contacts were rusted. After cleaning up, tried to start.... after some sparks from solenoid, I at least got a starter click noise. I am going to check out starter next... it maybe seized????

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I at least have lights! I jumper-ed the starter by itself and sparks flew everywhere... no spinning! So, my guess is that the starter is seized??? I have rebuilt starters on cars before but it's a pain in the butt with contacts and springs etc. ....I am guessing a smaller tractor starter could be even tougher. A new starter is $196.00 from Kohler.

I haven't even investigated the flywheel, if it is seized too???? Any thoughts?

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Jimmy,

For $196 I would take the starter you have apart and see whats up. What have you got to lose. As for the flywheel being siezed, if you can spin the crankshaft at all by hand, you can rule that out.

I have replaced brushes before on these type starters for very little $.

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I went to Auto Zone and oddly enough they can special order a starter for $55. and it will arrive next day. I investigated seat switch and it has broken off mount and the seat tighteners are so rusted I am breaking the plastic turn knobs! ... so I jumper-ed the connection. Next I investigated the neutral switch and found a huge hornets nest on the switch; removed it but the switch contact metal is bent like previous owner forced shifter???? Is there a way to bypass all 4 switches so that the power can flow to solenoid and power the starter?

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Shot answer is yes, Long answer is we can't tell you how or the lawyers will surely descend like vultures on roadkill. However if one were to test the switch determine if the switch is normally open or normally closed from the electrical diagram and then make it opposite to test function.

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Stupid lawyers...and the people that sue (that 1% rule effects the rest of us who have common sense!!!) Anyways...How does one determine if the switch is open or closed (wiring diagrams are foreign to me). How about relays (starter or kill)? How do you test them?

dbarlett: what happens if I can not move crankshaft or flywheel? seized? now what???... I am starting to get in over my head!!!

I took apart starter and it appear decent: good contacts and armature. Help!!!!

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Jimmy,

You should be able to spin the flywheel freely, as long as the PTO is disengaged. If not, then like you said you have bigger problems.

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I apologize to any lawyers out there!!! They are not stupid.... Sorry! I spoke out of frustration.

I will continue to work on using the wiring diagram and testing.

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I just purchased a multimeter and continuity tester. I will have to figure out how to use them and start testing relays, switches, etc.

When you try to spin flywheel, should I remove spark plug? The PTO is disengaged and in neutral, but the flywheel (fan) doesn't spin by hand. Seized?

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Next step is to remove the shroud on the top of the engine ( 5 or 6 bolts) and take a close look at the relationship of the flywheel teeth to the starter gear. If the starter is jammed, and the teeth of the starter gear are engaged into the flywheel, the engine can appear to be "jammed".

Remove the starter from the engine, and once again try to spin the cooling fan (flywheel) on the engine. Without the starter as a possible interference, the flywheel not spinning then becomes a 100% mechanical issue.

The starter can easily be tested off the engine. Just connect jumper cables to the battery and the starter. Battery (-) to the starter case and battery (+) to the starter electrical post.

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Thanks Old Iron, I removed the shroud and starter, but flywheel doesn't move in any direction. I had completed the starter test, but it arced so bad that it pitted the positive contact. So I guess the starter is bad too! Wow the previous owner must had really abused this horse! Oh well for $200 I got a plow, chains, weights, 4 new tires, 42" mower deck, twin bags and a wheel horse with a motor that needs some serious work!

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One other thought Jimmy.

Check the other end of the crankshaft - the PTO assy. I was given a 211-5 a few years back that the previous owner thought had a "locked up engine". Turns out the belt from mower deck was wrapped around the PTO pulley jamming it from spinning freely. A quick snip of the worn belt resulted in the engine being able to be turned over by hand.

You may also want to consider trying to put a breaker bar on the flywheel nut and applying "reasonable" force to see if the piston may be stuck in the bore. Beyond that, pulling the engine apart may be the only other choice.

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Thanks, Old Iron. The first thing I did when I brought the tractor home was to remove the deck. Good thought about the breaker bar. I will try it over the weekend. Thanks!

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I apologize to any lawyers out there!!! They are not stupid.... Sorry! I spoke out of frustration.

:twocents-twocents::ROTF: :eusa-whistle:

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Jimmy,

another thought. Although not common or likely, the cylinder may be hydro locked. Before applyiing any "reasonable" force with a breaker bar, remove the spark plug and see if any liquid runs out. The tractor could have been in a flood, or someome may have dumped enough liquid (gas or oil) down the carb to prevent the piston from reaching top dead center. Worth a try even tho you said the flywheel would not move in either direction.

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I had a seized engine on an old tractor and poured some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinder and let it soak. Did it a couple times and it finally broke free. It ran but I needed to get rid of it before I could put anytime on it. so I don't know if it lasted. But may be worth the try. Jim

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Old Iron: I removed spark plug (previous owner sez that he shot starting fluid each time he tried to start.) Hydro -locked, plus flywheel stat was rusted rock solid to magneto! With reasonable strength to flywheel nut, I was able to to move and clean up magneto and flywheel. I ordered starter from Auto Zone and replaced spark plug (also rusted!!!)

Excited to try to start on Tuesday!!! Your thoughts on solenoid? It sparked big time the last time I tried to work starter. Is it fried too?

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Jimmy, for now we will consider the starter solenoid OK. If it proves to be defective, it's a quick, simple and inexpensive replacement.

Good find on the locked in place flywheel. I always love when I bring those home after the owner swears "I had it running just yesterday!"

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