Crank 20 times before Kohler's start

[tractorbeast 27]

I have two 1980's C-series with a 10 and a 12hp kohler on them. they both act the same when starting. 20 or more cranks before finally starting. Ive had the carb apart a few times on the 12 hp engine, with no difference in the ease of starting. Could it be a fuel pump issue possibly? If I pull the "out" hose off the fuel pump, how should the fuel come out-drizzle or shoot up in the air. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[kpinnc 10,664]

Try pressurizing your fuel tank prior to the first crank attempt to see if it makes a difference. I wrap a compressed air nozzle with a rag, and just hold it over the filler neck for a few seconds. You probably won't have to hold pressure in the tank to start it, but rather you're using pressure to push fuel up to the carb. My 310-8 does the same thing, I assume because my fuel pump has a small leak and loses prime.

[rmaynard 14,861]

When cranking the engine with the output hose off of the pump, you should get spurts of several inches on each revolution.

I'm sure that you know this, but it never hurts to restate it. The Wheel Horse owners manual says that the proper starting procedure is to set the throttle at halfway, and the choke at full.

If all of the above is okay, pull the spark plug and check it's color. A fluffy black deposit means you are running too rich, white is too lean. Clean the plug and reset the gap.

If you take the carburetor off again, remove the breather covers and check your valve clearances.

[MarkPalmer 80]

Remember the fuel pump is only helping to pump gas in to the carb float bowl, it does not pressurize gas in to the engine or anything like that. Choke cables can go out of adjustment, make sure the choke valve is able to close all the way when cold starting. It shouldn't take more than a few cranks for the engine to fire under full choke at half throttle. If its a lot more I would look for a dirty plug, heavy carbon buildup in the combustion chamber and around the valves, as mentioned the cold valve clearance adjustments, and the points adjustment.

-Mark-

[stevasaurus 22,229]

A couple of things...your points control the timing on these engines. Try setting them with the "Static Method" or if they are set at 0.020 try setting them at 0.018. I have a 10 hsp on my B-100 and it was doing the same thing. I cleaned all the grounds and put in a new battery...it is down to about 7 cranks now. It also seems to help, especially when it is cold outside, to hold in the clutch pedal when cranking...not turning the belt and the input shaft on the transmission.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Try pressurizing your fuel tank prior to the first crank attempt to see if it makes a difference......

If the engine only starts hard after sitting for a few days or more but starts immediately once it has been running, the line is draining back and the pump is losing prime. Because the float bowl is vented, the gas evaporates and there's nothing for the engine to fire on.

I have had Onans, Kohlers, and Briggs & Strattons all do this on tractors with the under-fender gas tanks. Aside from lightly pressurizing the tank, (as Kevin mentioned) another option is to close the fuel valve under the tank when the tractor will be parked for longer time periods. (that will keep the line and pump full)

Another option would be to add an inline primer bulb: example

[Prater 75]

If its low pressure, remember to check the screen filter in the fuel tank. I have had a few that were very clogged. Its attached to the fuel valve on the bottom of the fuel tank.

[JackC 616]

I use a section of clear fuel line so I can see if fuel is sitting at the input to the carburetor or not when cranking.

If the fuel is there and it does not fire then it is not a fuel delivery problem.

It seems that the fuel pumps get weak on the older engines and allow the fuel to drain back.

This is an example of the use of the clear fuel line and a shut off on a D-160 to prevent drain back if the pump is weak on this engine.

[squonk 38,842]

I have one of the weakest fuel pumps known to man and my C160 will start with no choke, and the throttle at idle after about 5 turns. This is after sitting a week.

[leeave96 487]

I have the same trouble with my 14 hp Kohler magnum on my 314-8. Sometimes I pressurize the tank slightly and that seems to work. When I've got in everyday driver mode, it starts right-up. I bought a primer bulb, but haven't put it on yet. I have the same problem with one of my 20 hp Onan engines, but the other Onan starts so fast if I'm not careful, I'll flood it.

I've got a Cub Cadet with a 10 hp K series engine and that is the starting-ist engine I've ever seen. Probably because the gas tank is above the carb.

Good luck,

Bill

[JackC 616]

squonk, if your C-160 is like my 1975, the fuel tank sits above the carburetor and the engine should run by gravity feed alone.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Had a clogged gas tank on a C-121 last year...dead white spider was the culprit. The engine would only run with the choke on a little...was not getting enough gas...it sounds like you do not have this problem. Maybe check for a pinched line, but that would give you the same result. Do you have the same problem with the tank full?? What do you think TT??? Could it be a timing issue??

[squonk 38,842]

squonk, if your C-160 is like my 1975, the fuel tank sits above the carburetor and the engine should run by gravity feed alone.

Yes, but if I run out I have to take off the hose at the carb and fill the bowl or it will never restart.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

What do you think TT??? Could it be a timing issue??

Are you asking about your tractor and how you have to choke it slightly?

[tractorbeast 27]

wow, thanks for the great ideas. This starting problem is only the " FIRST" start. After the first start the next start is only 2 or 3 turns and shes running. The 12 hp runs strong, runs a 36" tiller with 200lbs of weight on top of it. Its going to keep raining sounds like, so I cant test any of these great ideas till next week probably. thanks again, steve.-----------I dont know how to keep this post with my first post.

[bowtiebutler956 649]

I noticed my K301 in my B-80 did this recentley after not being started for a month, but thats the only time its ever done that.

Matt :flags-texas:

[mattd860 161]

Try replacing the spark plug even if it was recently replaced. If you've done all the necessary carb cleaning and it's still not working it's probably an ignition issue. I once had the same issue on my 12hp Kohler and couldn't figure it out. It turned out to be that the BRAND NEW spark plug wasn't firing properly. I replaced it with the old spark plug and - voila!

[gomer gump 8]

could it be the compression release on the camshaft , had alot of trouble with my dads 416-8 wouldn,t start sometimes ,sometimes start right away , run ,stop run stop, motor had alot of hours on it so i disassembled and rebuilt motor what i found was little pieces of hard plastic all ground up in the motor especially by the compression release springs / arms . had to use small wire an air psi to get all the pieces out , just when you think you got them all more appear . these pieces get stuck behind the comp release mechanisms and cause starting problems. the plastic oil senser in the oil pan will break off inside the motor after years of operation and get chewed up by rotating parts inside the motor no fun . these pieces are lt blue color i did not replace the senser but you can. also found the spk plug wire had no rubber around the wire that goes to the ign module looked fine with all the shrouds on ,took them off and just had a bare wire to the module ,probably was causing some ign problems or grounding . also found starter was bad burnt inside .choke an throttle cables full of dirt /oil an grease and out of adjustment , carb dirty inside an out , worn piston rings rebuilt motor, also found some dirt in fuel tank , flushed it out real good and changed fuel valve screen was dirty , new fuel lines and fuel filter. might add i screen all my fuel before filling up tank , the fuel you get now days gotta watch it , full of dirt and grit . not always but sometimes you,ll fill up at gas station 5 gal or so take it home an screen it you,ll find alot of dirt and particles depends on where you go to fill up. you,d think at 4.00 a gallon they,d at least filter the gas .... your problem could be as simple as replaceing the fuel pump, the original pump on mine was ok now after the rebuild just barely tap the starter and starts runs like a dream real smooth an strong also rebuilt steering on the 416 a it really steers nice now. hopefully you won,t have to do a total rebuild might add also found a mouse nest inside shrouds an plates tractor was in pole barn but used it daily they get in there an chew on plastic an rubber . good luck

[Hydro 130]

I've experienced the same with with both my 14 & 16 Kohler engines. The 16 is running once every 1-2 weeks depending on the lawn but it seems like TT says the gas is running back into the tank. As he suggests I've been turning the gas off at the tank. That stops it. The 14 isn't being used that much and I've had to prime it to get it started. I can see the clear line filter empties when they sit. Once the're running they start easily every time while the filter is partially full.

[jeremi3210 688]

Ive had good luck taking those fuel pumps apart and cleaning the little valves. My gt14 was hard to start after it sat for a week so i took the pump apart and one of the valves fell out, put it back in and now it starts good.

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

This is one of the best series of helpful comments on Kohler motor starting issues have seen on Red Square !

A very nice series of comments from all the contributing members!

[Hydro 130]

Ive had good luck taking those fuel pumps apart and cleaning the little valves. My gt14 was hard to start after it sat for a week so i took the pump apart and one of the valves fell out, put it back in and now it starts good.

Glad you mentioned that because I never had this issue with my 312 or the Onan 416. My little 312 would sit for long periods of time and start right up. I will look into seeing if I can correct the fuel pump issue.

[Smokey Blaze 2]

My 312-8 seems to have the same problem. After cranking it for a while without getting it started I gave it a few quick shots of starting fluid and it fired right up. Starts up everytime after that, but if I leave it sit for a few days I have to repaet the above process.

[Hammerhead 816]

Yes my 312's and 314's both crank over like that and won't start for quite a few cranks. I just cover the gas tank inlet with my finger and blow in the tank with my mouth. It's alot easier than dragging out the compressor and all that. I do this on my other tractors as well, even the old RJ's. They fire right up after blowing into it. It's a little harder to blow into the big tractors fuel tank since they have a bigger opening about 2 inches. The RJ's inlets are smaller about 1 1/4 inches. It's just a matter of if you have a big enough mouth to cover the inlet or not! KJ

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

My 312-8 seems to have the same problem. After cranking it for a while without getting it started I gave it a few quick shots of starting fluid and it fired right up. Starts up everytime after that, but if I leave it sit for a few days I have to repaet the above process.

My 312-8 was just like this about three months after this year cleaning the tank and screen, installing new fuel line and filter, and cleaning the carb. It finally got to where it would not keep running after the starting fluid was burned out. As I was removing the carb bowl I was thinking there was no way the carb was dirty / must be the fuel pump. For some reason unknown the me the carb bowl was dirty. I cleaned the carb all over again and dang, problem solved!