Rooster 191 #1 Posted July 11, 2012 Hey fellas.. Starting to build a puller. I will start out pulling stock class stuff but would like the tractor to stand some minor power increases later. After alot of reading, both here and other places...this is what I have come up with....so you experts correct me if I am wrong. The Best Tranny to pull with is the 8 pinion differential, dual range trans-axles. (I'm not getting into the 8speed, 6speed confusion of it all...), which just also happen to be the hardest units to find... There are 4 basic designs... The single range, 4 pinion diff unit. The dual range, 4pinion diff unit. The dual range, 8 Pinion diff unit The dual rang,10 pinion limited slip diff unit The weakness of the 4 pinion units is simply the lack of 4 more pinions....Correct? The weakness in the 10 pinion units is the hollow pinions...Correct? The weakness of the 8pinion diffs is availability, they are the hardest to find! Everyone I have talked to or read either claims to be running in high range or could be running in high range with correct gearing. The single range units have the samr ratios as the dual range units high side....SO is it safe to assume that if the weak diff problem was corrected, the single range unit would work? I would think(NOT having any experiance with pulling, so I am probably wayyyy wrong here) a limited slip unit would be better? SO if the 10 Pinion Limited slip trans had the hollow pinion problem fixed, would those be better to pull with? Not looking to start a debate here, but Opinions are OK. What I would really like to know, is there anything besides the diff's that make one better than the other? Stronger gears or cases? Better bearings? I need a trans-axle that I can get started with a stock engine and will hold together with a mildly built engine later. Thanks in advance for the help, I have a few tractors to choose from , which I plan on starting a thread soon so I even get that part right, lol...but I hoped to see a thread with a GOOD discussion about trans-axles, something besides "Use the 8pinion, it works best", lol... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #2 Posted July 11, 2012 Start out with a "tight" 8 speed / 8 pinion / 1 1/8" axle transaxle and you shouldn't need to worry unless you get beyond 50hp. There is no stronger stock production Wheel Horse transaxle than that combination - period. (sorry - no debate ~ just the facts ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #3 Posted July 11, 2012 TT, thanks for the reply....but that is what I already knew, lol! The problem with that is....those are hard to find, and expensive when you do. If you live in an area like me where Wheel Horses themselves are already hard to find...then finding that Trans-axle becomes almost impossible, especially a Good one! I am trying to figure out a possible alternative and more information than simply "There is none stronger.." Is it just the Diff that is stronger, or is the housing itself stouter? What makes it stronger that I could maybe make modifications to another trans-axle and be able to pull in Lower HP classes with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #4 Posted July 11, 2012 Case design, transmission shaft & bearing size, gear strength, etc. is nearly the same with most of the 3, 4, and 6/8 speeds. The difference is in the strength of the carrier/ring gear/pinions and the axles and supporting bearings. The 1 1/8" axles will not fit (easily - if not at all > don't know for sure - never tried ) in any 3 or 4 speed cases that have 1" axles. The 8 pinion / 8 speeds were introduced in the early 70's and ran through 2006/7 with very little change. The only reason they might be "almost impossible to find" is because many of those tractors are in use. I wouldn't be afraid of using a newer 4 pinion / 1" axle 8 speed as long as it's in good condition and you don't "go nuts" with power. Before this gets too far along, what kind of pulling are you considering? (weight transfer sled / dirt track, etc.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #5 Posted July 11, 2012 I didn't know there were different kinds of Pulling? lol All I have seen are weight sled on dirt? Ohh I guess I i have seen some videos of the sleds on cement..not interested in that! Doubt I will go nuts on power any time soon, I will be lucky to make a couple of pulls a year with my racing schedule. SO...are all the 1 1/8" axle trans 8 pinion trans? That is one stat I could not find... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #6 Posted July 11, 2012 SO...are all the 1 1/8" axle trans 8 pinion trans? That is one stat I could not find... No - the "6 speed" transaxles had 10 pinion differentials and 1 1/8" axles. Here's a comparison photo of an 8 pinion differential (L) vs. an early (aluminum end caps) 10 pinion differential: pinion comparison (guess which pinions are from the 10 pinion diff): Contrary to popular belief, the 4 pinion differentials in the newer 8 speeds can not be fitted with the other four pinions - at least none that I've had apart: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #7 Posted July 12, 2012 I see. So not much can be done to help the 10 orc4 pinion diffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SousaKerry 500 #8 Posted July 12, 2012 Rooster I am not sure why you are having problems finding 8sp tranny's out your way but If your ever up this way I'm sure we could find you a few. I have 3 of them (sorry all in use) and I don't think I paid over $50 for each of the tractors they came with. Watch for parts tractors most of the time there is nothing wrong with the tranny and the engine is gone or locked up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #9 Posted July 12, 2012 Rooster I am not sure why you are having problems finding 8sp tranny's out your way but If your ever up this way I'm sure we could find you a few. I have 3 of them (sorry all in use) and I don't think I paid over $50 for each of the tractors they came with. Watch for parts tractors most of the time there is nothing wrong with the tranny and the engine is gone or locked up. Parts tractors around here are $200.....Trannys are $100-$150. Most the time you find a tranny, it was in a puller and already half worn out...and still $100!! In 6 months of Looking, I have not seen an 8 Pinion tranny for sale within 200 miles of me..so add $100 in gas to go get the $100 tranny! I will probably find one somewhere I have a racing buddy and get them to haul it to a race I am going to....but my racing buddy is starting to give me hell about "hauling home more rusty crap!" lol!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baerpath 517 #10 Posted July 13, 2012 You can put a 8 pinion into a 10 pinion case, done it. Takes a bit of grinding for clearance but can be done. Ever get out this way I've got a few spares Duane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtiebutler956 649 #11 Posted July 14, 2012 My 4 pinion in my B-80 has 1 1/8 axles. I realize its still not one of the tuff rearends, but mine does have the big axles. Looking forward to watching you biuld a puller Rooster!! I've always wanted to do that. Matt :flags-texas: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baerpath 517 #12 Posted July 14, 2012 Unless your B 80 is a short frame it should have a 8 pinion Also Roosters B 100 should be a 8 pinion. Not the strongest version as they had the smaller hub keyway's in them but still a strong 8 pinion. If it becomes a problem you can mill straight key ways into the axles. Duane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtiebutler956 649 #13 Posted July 14, 2012 Unless your B 80 is a short frame it should have a 8 pinion Also Roosters B 100 should be a 8 pinion. Not the strongest version as they had the smaller hub keyway's in them but still a strong 8 pinion. If it becomes a problem you can mill straight key ways into the axles. Duane I've had mine apart, and its just a 4 pinion. My B-80 has a 4 speed, not an 8. Matt :flags-texas: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #14 Posted July 14, 2012 And my B100 is a hydro. Lol 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smoreau 658 #15 Posted July 14, 2012 Just keep a eye on craigs list and check around at your local dealer to see if anyone has parts tractors laying around. I never pay more then $50 for a 8 pinion 8 speed! That's with hubs! I find them on evil bay, craigs list and word of mouth. I have one know sitting on a shelf ready to go into a project some day. I don't have a 8 speed tractor at the moment, but plan to have one soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster 191 #16 Posted July 16, 2012 Lol, you guys just do not understand.... Smoreau, you are in Michigan, only a state away from where Wheel Horses were made, they are plentiful around you! I am in Kansas, 4 states away..they are not plentiful, there are no Local Dealers near me - Yes there are Toro dealers, but they don't even know what a Wheel Horse IS! There are a couple of repair shops, one of them has quite a bit of stuff, and they think it is gold! He quoted me $300 for a rusted up C120 missing body parts(Fenders) and no engine! Trans-axle locked up! But he graciously offered to sell me a good trans...for $250.... There are non-running horses that hit CL around here for $700... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
