Straight From the Horse's Mouth - The final chapter

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squonk

Installelectric fuel pump on a C-160

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Ever since I've owned my 76 C-160, I've had fuel pump issues. They will pump like crazy if I move the lever by hand. But on the engine I can't seem to get any while cranking. If I fill the bowl and get it running it will stay running. If I run out of gas, I have to fill the bowl again. Lately with the hot weather

I've had fuel starvation issues. I have gotten several pumps and they all do the same thing. I'm starting to get the feeling my cam lobe is worn down. So with no grass growing,no rain in sight and at least a couple of weeks before I might have to mow again, I've decided to bite the bullet and install an electric pump like Brian miller suggests.

Got a Facet universal pump from Napa. Part # 6101051. About 60 bucks after I cut loose with the tax. Pump mounted on hood tower. I used 1 existing bolt and marked the other hole.

IMG_0100.jpg

Harness made up for the power from the coil. I'll run a 5 amp fuse in the holder and power a relay from the ignition circuit. I got a common relay that is used in many cars. I just so happened to have a remote starter that I tore out of my son's car that had 5 of them. Got spares!

IMG_0101.jpg

I'm supplying power to the pump from a battery tender harness I already had on the tractor. Plug and play. The ignition circuit turns on the relay so the tractor wiring itself only operates the relay coil. The tender harness supplies the pump and there's a 10 amp fuse in that.Hooked it all up and just bumped the key and the little pump putters! :)

IMG_0102.jpg

All that left is the fuel line connections but it's too hot. :angry-extinguishflame: I had the A/C on in the shop :banana-skier: but when I'm fooling with gas I want the door open. More to come

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Clean looking installation Mike.

Once completed...can we see a little video overview of it in action too? :thanks:

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So when it comes time to install an inline fuel filter where would it go? I'm thinking before the pump so any crap that it catches would'nt go thru the pump :scratchead: .

Nice install Mike!

Mike............

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Yeah, filter before pump. If I ever get a video app to work right on my phone, I'll post it

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My friend has a pump he pulled out his dragster turned down on his puller he has a switch to manually turn it on hes running 15 psi for fuel pressure with a make-shift turbo that thing rocks

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Same pump I put on my 18 auto.. It'll do great for you!!!

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I seem to have a weak needle and seat in my carb. Using the electric, it dumps fuel after I shut off the engine. It comes out of the air cleaner and right an the hot muffler! :jaw: I've switched it back to the mech. pump and have another carb all cleaned up with new float but it needs a throttle shaft bushing installed. I also found a cheap fuel pressure regulator to play with so once the carb's done I'll hook it all back up and dial it in.

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Squonk, Why did you use the relay in the wiring of your fuel pump. The instructions i got with my pump didn't say anything about using a relay. Just wondered ! :dunno:

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Squonk, Why did you use the relay in the wiring of your fuel pump. The instructions i got with my pump didn't say anything about using a relay. Just wondered ! :dunno:

I wanted the load of the pump handled by the relay contacts instead of the puny contacts in the ign switch. The switch only handles the load created by the relay coil which is quite tiny.

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Mike, Where can i find one of these relays and what do i ask for? I was going wire my pump by splicing into the coil wire from the ignition switch but after seeing your setup, i think i would like to wire mine the same way. :thumbs2:

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I have a similar problem with my KT-17 and have been contemplating this option also, pump runs fine when operated by hand but on the tractor I get squat have to dump gas down the carb if the tractor sits more then 2 days.

Unless my fuel bowl leaks but you would think a few cranks and it would be filled

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I have heard that sometimes the cam in the engine that pushes the pump lever, wears down and becomes rounder. This reduces the ability of the pump to develop full pressure. Not much to do about it other than replacing the cam or installing an ancillary pump.

Great point by Squonk about the current flow through the switch.

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Posted (edited)

I realize this is an old thread but I just wanted to thank squonk for excellent instructions. I just put this same pump on my C-125 and it solved all my issues. I bump the key after its warmed up and it starts immediately and those twelve ponies are chomping at the bit.  

Edited by rjcap
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Here's the 2nd half of the install.

 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2012 at 5:49 PM, squonk said:

Ever since I've owned my 76 C-160, I've had fuel pump issues. They will pump like crazy if I move the lever by hand. But on the engine I can't seem to get any while cranking. If I fill the bowl and get it running it will stay running. If I run out of gas, I have to fill the bowl again. Lately with the hot weather

I've had fuel starvation issues. I have gotten several pumps and they all do the same thing. I'm starting to get the feeling my cam lobe is worn down. So with no grass growing,no rain in sight and at least a couple of weeks before I might have to mow again, I've decided to bite the bullet and install an electric pump like Brian miller suggests.

 

 

Got a Facet universal pump from Napa. Part # 6101051. About 60 bucks after I cut loose with the tax. Pump mounted on hood tower. I used 1 existing bolt and marked the other hole.

IMG_0100.jpg

 

Harness made up for the power from the coil. I'll run a 5 amp fuse in the holder and power a relay from the ignition circuit. I got a common relay that is used in many cars. I just so happened to have a remote starter that I tore out of my son's car that had 5 of them. Got spares!

IMG_0101.jpg

 

I'm supplying power to the pump from a battery tender harness I already had on the tractor. Plug and play. The ignition circuit turns on the relay so the tractor wiring itself only operates the relay coil. The tender harness supplies the pump and there's a 10 amp fuse in that.Hooked it all up and just bumped the key and the little pump putters! :)

 

IMG_0102.jpg

 

All that left is the fuel line connections but it's too hot. :angry-extinguishflame: I had the A/C on in the shop :banana-skier: but when I'm fooling with gas I want the door open. More to come

 

 

Good wiring job up until the point of using a cable tie. Nice use of the proper connectors and heat shrink. The relay is a good idea and prolongs the ignition switch life.

What is the pressure capabilities of the pump?

Tried to edit and that didn't work for some reason.  Looked up the pump and its 1.5-4 psi. Seems a little high to me.  You might want to consider slowing it down a bit if problems arise. The pump is rated 12VDC and possibly will output even higher pressure on 14.6 VDC under full charge.  If it were mine I would measure the current draw and select a small resistor to possibly slow down the pump motor a tad to lower the pressure.

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22 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

 

 

Good wiring job up until the point of using a cable tie. Nice use of the proper connectors and heat shrink. The relay is a good idea and prolongs the ignition switch life.

What is the pressure capabilities of the pump?

Tried to edit and that didn't work for some reason.  Looked up the pump and its 1.5-4 psi. Seems a little high to me.  You might want to consider slowing it down a bit if problems arise. The pump is rated 12VDC and possibly will output even higher pressure on 14.6 VDC under full charge.  If it were mine I would measure the current draw and select a small resistor to possibly slow down the pump motor a tad to lower the pressure.

Read this part too! 

 

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I read your fuel pump thread. There are several things that jump out as being possible reasons for the problems your having.  Maybe I could possibly help? 

 

Little engines don't need/want a lot of pressure on the needle and seat. I will insert a little story here.... back years ago I had Tri-power on my GTO. I installed the "approved" factory replacement fuel pump from the parts store and was getting 8-9 PSI to the carbs. It ran rich, blew black smoke and wouldn't start if turned off. I took the pump off went to the Pontiac dealer and purchased the correct fuel pump installed it checked the pressure and was back running good again. Yes, I could have put another piece in the plumbing and installed a regulator and dialed the pressure down and maybe it might have worked correctly and maybe not.

 

Generally little engines need very little pressure. Enough to put fuel in the carb bowel but not enough to cause the needle and seat problems trying to maintain a seal when the float bowel is full of gas. Vapor lock caused by close proximity to exhaust is also a problem. The engineers don't seem to take fuel line placement as a consideration when routing it. Your location / how warm it gets in your summer will dictate if your life will go easy or you will experience a boat load of problems.  Myself I'm a believer of metal fuel lines on the little engines verses neoprene. If the fuel line is too close to the exhaust pipe try the following options.... try a heat shield around the exhaust pipe a 1/2-3/4 piece of metal will generally do the job. If that doesn't work try routing your steel line away from the exhaust pipe and wrap it with some reflective material and see if that doesn't help.

 

Also, remove the fuel cap and install a known good one with a working vent. Lets get your problem solved once and for all. 

 

Also, there are different schools with respect to fuel filter placement. One is install it close to the tank and the other is install it close to the carb. Look at it in this light..

you have a pump and the pump is capable to running the pressure thru the filter so I would try the filter after the pump and I would start with a new filter. I would limit the pressure to 1/2 PSI and see what happens with flow and increase not more than 1 psi.

 

 

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This pump install was a few years ago. The fuel leakage issue was fixed with a new needle and seat. The tractor has run perfect for a couple of years now. :)

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