kpinnc 10,718 #1 Posted November 23, 2007 I know a couple of you guys have FELs. I've seen one with an auxillary hydraulic pump mounted on the PTO, but Eldon's C520 dosen't appear to have one. My question is if the factory charge pump on the 520 hydro is strong enough to run something like a FEL, or is the auxillary pump just not visible in the pictures? I didn't want to hijack Eldon's thread, so I just started a different one. I have a hydraulic project on the drawing board, and I was wondering if the factory pump would be enough to run it. If the hydraulics on the C-520 are factory, then what I'm working on will certainly not need auxillary hydraulics. Thanks! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj4kicks 151 #2 Posted November 23, 2007 Hey Kevin, Even the mighty Onan 20hp and Eaton trans uses an aux pump for the FEL. It mounts to the block, just off the PTO, and uses a short belt to drive it. It can be seen here: The hoses loop under the tractor, and up to the control valve. At least one good reason not to use the hydro-drive pump is that you take away the quick-change feature, and every time you open up the system, you invite dirt in. The oil resevoir is actually the left side upright post of the FEL frame. Hope that helps you. Eldon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 10,718 #3 Posted November 23, 2007 Thanks Eldon, I had just found the previous pictures and saw the auxillary pump. Made me feel kinda silly! I've been talking of taking the Briggs 14 off of my 867. I'm having a difficult time making it work, and also because I have another project in mind that would better suit the Briggs 14 twin. I have another Wheel Horse (Work Horse) frame and sheet metal, plus an Eaton hydro tranny I picked up some time ago. I had used it a couple times on my 310 a couple years ago with the 700 series pump, and it worked great. I only took it off after reallizing that a hydro steals quite a few HP from the 10 horse engine. If it was used with a 42 inch deck, it was straining quite a bit to keep up. I was later told that a hydro on average steals about 4 HP just to run it. I had no idea. Anyway, I've picked up an Eaton 1100 with the charge pump for hydraulics. If it works (haven't tried it yet), I'm gonna build a tractor from the ground up that has a true 3 point hitch for category 0 implements. I'll have to move a few things around like the fuel tank and battery to make room for the hitch, but I think I can do it. It looks good on paper anyway... Anyway, I know the factory hydraulics only max out at about 700 PSI. I'm just wondering if that will be enough for a heavy hitch set up like a 3 point. I know the D series tractors and the C-195 both carried 3 points with the Sundstrand hydraulic charge pump, but I've never seen the Eaton model carry anything more than a tiller or mower deck. Kinda wondering if it will have the volume neccesary for a heavier implement... Still figuring.... Thanks! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj4kicks 151 #4 Posted November 23, 2007 Oh, now I understand.... I think that the factory Eaton hydraulics that go to the lift cylinder would work fine. Maybe even use the factory cylinder. It's amazing what they can move (think how heavy a 60" deck is). Add a little leverage at just the right place, and you could lift ALOT with a 3-point setup. Can't wait to see it! Eldon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 10,718 #5 Posted November 23, 2007 Can't wait to see it myself! LOL I've just got all these parts lying around, I may as well use them! I've got lift arms, and a couple 3 point implements too. It was bound to happen sooner than later! It all depends on whether the Eaton 1100 is any good or not. Unlike the 700 series, it'll be a chore just getting the 1100 set up to check and see if it's any good or not. The 1100 has all kinds of lines to hook up, and I am NOT buying Wheel Horse parts to do it with. Just one hose I looked up was $32! No fittings, nothing- just the hose! I can buy new hoses at TSC for $5. That's why I was asking about the part numbers on the 520 tractors earlier. There is only 1 gear that is different on the transaxle from a 700 series pump to a 1100 series. Same number of teeth, just narrower to allow the bigger pump to fit. Anyway- That will be the next project. The Bronco 14 and the 867 are holding up the shop space at the moment. I've got to have a new keyway cut in one axle for the Bronco, and it's back to the barn for it. The swap on the differential for it was easy, I just found a ruined keyway and hub on the left rear wheel. When it's done- it's going back to work! I'm thinking the 867 is gonna be put back together all original. Everything is almost done on it anyway, and the original engine looks really good: At least then I'll have a tractor to modify any way I want and not feel like I'm taking away from an original classic machine. Not to mention I am ready to play with the 867! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rollerman 290 #6 Posted November 23, 2007 Kevin you mentioned the C195 as haveing the Sundstrand?...I believe it had an Eaton & also came with an optional 3 point. You may want to bug the other (Steve) here on the site.."refracman". He has restored a C195 & may be able to help you set up your pump for your homebuilt? Make sure you post pics of your creation! Stephen in northern IN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 10,718 #7 Posted November 23, 2007 Will do Stephen, Thanks! If the C-195 did have the Eaton, that'll be a relief to me. I was thinking the C series hydros before the sqaure "black hoods" were all Sundstrands. Thanks Again! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse_of_course 99 #8 Posted November 23, 2007 I think the PSI is not nearly as important as the volume. By choosing appropriate cylinders you can accomodate the a given PSI for a given lift capacity, however if the volume is too low you can have a setup that works, but is limited in its ability to do real work because it is so slow to move the implement. I have been curious for years at what practical applications could be done with the Sundstand system. I did not realize the Eatons also have a charge pump that can be used for implements. My experience is limited to Sundstand Autos. I am curious, you say you hope for an Eaton, why is that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,120 #9 Posted November 23, 2007 The C-195 should have the Eaton 1100. From what I understand the Sundstrands have a higher rate of failure than the Eaton's do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 10,718 #10 Posted November 24, 2007 I'm not sure Karl, I can't say about failure rate. But I know the Sundstrand is a serviceable unit. When an Eaton fails, it's a paperweight. All it takes is one grain of sand, and it's disposable... I've got four 700 series pumps, and only one is a good one. I've bought two tractors with Sundstrands, and both are 35+ years old. Both work great! The one on the Bronco 14 that I just took apart was one of the cleanest, with the absolute least amount of wear of any mechanical device I've ever seen. I honestly felt guilty for opening it. I guess I'm leary of the Eatons only because I have seen so many fail- again, just personal experience, not statistics. WHOC- The reason I was hoping an Eaton would have the capacity to do it is because I just picked up a 1100 series pump. It mounts to the same transaxle as the 700s do, and I have one in good shape. I thought I'd give it ONE more shot! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
