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#1 OFFLINE   Robin Boulianne

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:17 PM

I had to open my transmission to fix a small leak. Now, since all Dexron ATF is removed, I can change the type of oil. My question is what is the main advantage to change this ATF for something else like engine oil for instance. I also have a hydrostatic CubCadet 2185 and the maintenance manual indicates a special oil for this application. Is it possible that another type of oil provides a higher pulling torque? Better performances in very hot conditions? Reduces leakages? I look forward your opinions.

Regards.
Robin Boulianne

#2 OFFLINE   smoreau

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:20 PM

Put in Mobil 1 10w30 and change the filter. It will last longer then any other type or kind you can buy and will reduce hot slippage.

Scott
Reese MI

1960 400 suburban
1965 875 wheel-a-matic
1966 lawn ranger re power k161
1974 c160 auto
1985 417A
1986 417A
1990 520H re power 18 magnum

 

I like my Kohlers!!

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#3 OFFLINE   Hodges Dodges

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

I personally cannot justify the added expense of synthetic lubricants. I know more than a few people on here that have 5 or more machines and if you figure 3 times the cost up front for syhthetic oils plust the special filter you could easily spend $200 or more a year on trans oil changes with 5 tractor. Unles you plan on running them 500 hours between changes theres absolutely no benefit. Change it with the proper lube the manual calls for( either ATF or OIL) and forget about sythetic. My Dad has a 1973 12 auto that he bought new in 73 and it has over 2500 hours on it. The oil is changed every year with 10-30 and the proper hydro filter that the manual calls for and had no issues whatsoever. Another very important question is what machine is this oil change happening in? If the tractor is pre early 1973 and is supposed to have ATF in it and you decide to run oil in it...well my friend youre might have a heap a hurting done to that hydro. Theres a reason they call for ATF in the manual. I guess it all comes down to you and how much money you'd like to waste. If you got a disposable income , by all means go by Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil1 at $10 a quart multiplied by however many qts you need. Its still gonna run as it was designed with the standard dinosaur juice in it...synthetic is a waste of money.

1958 RJ
1959 RJ
1960 Suburban 400
1961 Suburban 551

1971 Charger 12 Automatic with a 42" plow nicknamed "Ol' Rustbucket"
1973 Wheel Horse18 Auto spinning a 60" deck from a 520 AKA "Da Beast"
1974 C-160 8 Speed with a 42" RD deck
1996 Toro Wheel Horse 416 Hydro with a 1977 48" Pow-R-Rake model 100 powered dethatcher

 

Going GREEN is fine, except when it comes to tractors.....Then it better be RED in that shed !!!


#4 OFFLINE   Tap53

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:54 PM

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#5 OFFLINE   Kelly

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:38 PM

I'm a fan of Synthetic oil, I change the filter each year and top the oil off, after a few years I will drain it, I found in the cold winter temps my hydros don't labor when starting, the oil flows like it should, not like syrup, and I can buy 5qts of Mobil ! at Wal mart for $26, good reg oil is $3.50-4 a qt so it's not that much more.
But with that being said, a oil change and new correct filter is best. no matter what brand or type you use, but I can't say use ATF over motor oil, I use what it calls for, just my brand and type.
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#6 OFFLINE   bo dawg

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:59 AM

I know years back I had an early 70's that had the ATF and I changed it to 10w30 and it did run a bit cooler at first but was never the same. It did give me a bit more power on the upgrades. I cut at that time 4 acres, then I moved after 3 years to 1.5 acres for another 2 years. But always acted kind of sluggish. Sold the tractor and the trans went out shortly after.

But now on my 68 Charger with the ATF in it, has more pulling power and strength then any of my later models with the 10w30. I got a heavy yard roller (that should be pulled with a manual trans) I try pulling on the later models and they get hot and slow. But the Charger will pull it around like nothing and the trans will stay cool.

I would keep the ATF in your tractor if thats what it came with. Good clean ATF change should make it like new again.

#7 OFFLINE   Hodges Dodges

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:14 AM

Kelly is that price on sale or something? I have looked at the 3 Wally worlds around me and its $36 right now for 5 qts of Mobil 1 and $9.36 for a single qt. I need six for my 18 auto and its really hard for me to justify this right now. $50 for an oil change hurts big time. Can I run the oil for 4 years with only changing the filter yearly? Also can I use the standard Wheel Horse hydro filter with Mobil 1 or do I need to source a filter specific to synthetics? I know Amsoil makes you use their filters which are 3Xs the cost of normal Wix or Purolater filters.

1958 RJ
1959 RJ
1960 Suburban 400
1961 Suburban 551

1971 Charger 12 Automatic with a 42" plow nicknamed "Ol' Rustbucket"
1973 Wheel Horse18 Auto spinning a 60" deck from a 520 AKA "Da Beast"
1974 C-160 8 Speed with a 42" RD deck
1996 Toro Wheel Horse 416 Hydro with a 1977 48" Pow-R-Rake model 100 powered dethatcher

 

Going GREEN is fine, except when it comes to tractors.....Then it better be RED in that shed !!!


#8 OFFLINE   Rooster

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

Hodge...just because you don't want to spend the money for synthetics does not make them "a waste of money".
"It has worked for years" doesn't mean new technology doesn't work better!
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#9 OFFLINE   Hodges Dodges

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:57 PM

Yeah Rooster I understand. It was my opinion only. I learn alot from this site and I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong at times. I never wanted to offend anyone and their opinions either. I still have a tough time swallowing the bitter pill of a $70 oil change for a hydro unless I can run that oil for about 3-5 years and only change the filter every year. I actually spent alot of time today learning from you guys and did some research on my own about synthetic oils. I can't believe how durable they are. True synthetics like Amsoil can be run for 25,000 miles in between oil changes with the use of a bypass type filter setup that filters only part of the oil at a time to the submicron level...Mobil 1 is another great synthetic. I also found out about true synthtics and cracked synthetics which are basiclly standard hydrocarbon oils that have been molecularly altered and still will breakdown in heat unlike true synthetics, just not as quickly. Mobil 1 can be heated to close to 450 degrees before it starts to breakdown...standard dino juice cant come close to that. Its absolutely amazing to me to see how times have progressed..... Thats why I'm now looking into using the synthetics in my 18 auto hydro system, probably Mobil 1. I was looking at Amsoil but its close to $100 plus shipping for an oil change and the special filter they tell me I need..... I still will say though that 40 years old and yearly oil and filter changes has kept my Dads Sundstrand running like a top, so dino juice is still pretty good in my book.

1958 RJ
1959 RJ
1960 Suburban 400
1961 Suburban 551

1971 Charger 12 Automatic with a 42" plow nicknamed "Ol' Rustbucket"
1973 Wheel Horse18 Auto spinning a 60" deck from a 520 AKA "Da Beast"
1974 C-160 8 Speed with a 42" RD deck
1996 Toro Wheel Horse 416 Hydro with a 1977 48" Pow-R-Rake model 100 powered dethatcher

 

Going GREEN is fine, except when it comes to tractors.....Then it better be RED in that shed !!!


#10 OFFLINE   Robin Boulianne

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:03 PM

Tap53,

If I understand well, it is much more better to run with Hy-Tran Ultra since copper and brass weight loss and deposit is fas below than others. This means there is much less wear in piston pump and other bearings into the tranny isn't it?
Robin Boulianne

#11 OFFLINE   Hydro

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:50 PM

Wow the difference in opinion is almost as wide as the variety of lubricants.

I have to believe(please correct me if I'm wrong) that Wheel Horse testing did not go very far beyond the geography where they were sold. Neither did they have a budget for testing products of the '90's once under the Toro brand.

Older models called for certain lubricants, later models called for other lubricants. Synthetics do seem to solve some of the differences in the lubricants and now the temps in geographical areas where they are used. From my point of view synthetics last longer and in transmissions or hydros, there is no contamination except moisture so it would stand to reason that the lubricant would last longer and if anything were to be changed, it would only be the filter.

I have used synthetic oil over many years and never an issue. If I use synthetic oil I expect the higer cost to be offset by longer oil change intervals otherwise there is no long term benefit.

Gary

'97 516C (Custom)16 & Single...Kohler Power.
'88 416-8
Weapons of Grass Destruction!


#12 OFFLINE   can whlvr

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:04 PM

the thing that i think contaminates the oil of atf is moisture,if you live in arizona you probally could get away with less changes,but in the cold to hot geographic locations i think its wise to change every year because of condensation,but thats my opinion only,but for 35 bucks a year thats what i do,(35 for each hydro tractor)
don from hockley valley ontario,1975c160auto,1975c160-8,1975c120auto,1978c101-8,1986308-8,1987414-8,1989414-8,1990 312-h lots decks,a tiller,some throwers,a blade or two and other non horse stuff

#13 OFFLINE   kpinnc

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

I can't do anything but add more confusion to this discussion...

I changed the differential out to an 8-pinion on my Bronco 14 (just because I have a phobia of 10-pinions), and it had ATF in it. Prior to 1973, this was what was used in the Sundstrands. I can tell you my transmission was the cleanest, rust free, and wear free of anything like it I have ever seen. The teeth on the gears were sharp-edged and all the bearing surfaces were smooth and quite frankly looked absolutely new. I mic'ed all of those areas and found no apparent wear at all. To this day, that transmission runs faster than any other hydro I have, and has no power issues at all. It also is ready to work from the moment it is started even in freezing temperatures. Of course, the tractor was serviced regularly before I got it, so I'm certain that is a contributor as well.

So, in my opinion- If the tranny has ATF in it, and it works just fine that way, stick with it. The stats on the Hy-Tran Ultra are impressive, but I can't give an opinion there simply because I've never used it. If you do decide to, please keep us all posted on how it works for you. It does appear to have some interesting qualities.

Good luck either way.
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#14 OFFLINE   Ringo546

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

I am (totally) new to this forum, so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a '70's vintage C120 with a hydo-transmition (of some kind) sorry.
I have free access to some kinds of transmition oil. Can I safely put "Syncromesh" transmition oil into this baby?
Not sure what it currently has, since I just bought it recently. Probably better figure on a full drain / replace, right?

#15 OFFLINE   Hodges Dodges

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:11 PM

no synchromesh...10W30 will be fine...your choice of synthetic or the dinosaur variety....change the filter too!!!....oh and :WRS:

1958 RJ
1959 RJ
1960 Suburban 400
1961 Suburban 551

1971 Charger 12 Automatic with a 42" plow nicknamed "Ol' Rustbucket"
1973 Wheel Horse18 Auto spinning a 60" deck from a 520 AKA "Da Beast"
1974 C-160 8 Speed with a 42" RD deck
1996 Toro Wheel Horse 416 Hydro with a 1977 48" Pow-R-Rake model 100 powered dethatcher

 

Going GREEN is fine, except when it comes to tractors.....Then it better be RED in that shed !!!


#16 OFFLINE   smoreau

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:01 PM

Just picked up a 5qt jug of Mobil 1 10w30 at wally world for $26.49. Filters run about $12 at my local dealer, so the fluid change will be $40.80 with tax. I got enough to change 2 eaton 1100's over to Mobil 1. I plan on changing the filter every year and the fluids every other year. They only see about 25 hours a year each and they are all used through all the seasons.

Scott
Reese MI

1960 400 suburban
1965 875 wheel-a-matic
1966 lawn ranger re power k161
1974 c160 auto
1985 417A
1986 417A
1990 520H re power 18 magnum

 

I like my Kohlers!!

newwebheadermcgredo-1.jpg


#17 OFFLINE   Robin Boulianne

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

It worked fine but since I got it last fall only, I don't know its performances on summer time. The only thing I can tell you is that it was not able to spin its rear wheels when pulling heavy loads. I also have to declare that it is loaded with 2 wheel weights of 150 pounds each. I do weight 225 pounds myself and it was equipped with ice tire chains. It is not very reasonable I know but as a clue, the engine never stalled. There is no wear marks in this tranny and it seems like new even after 47 years of use. Finally, I probably have my answer...
Robin Boulianne

#18 OFFLINE   Kelly

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

Ok you know Mobil makes Synthetic Mobil 1 ATF, I run it in my truck.

#19 OFFLINE   Robin Boulianne

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

Here is the inside of the transmission. The key of the left hub is almost cut and the hub keyway is broken. I have decided to make another and longer keyway. This shaft is made from a very good steel since hardness = 55 Rockwell C. This is the reason why the problem is in the hub. The shaft seal is no longer available from Toro. This is a 1.500" O.D. and 1.000" I.D.

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Robin Boulianne

#20 OFFLINE   23 Reo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:36 PM

Picked up a 5 quart jug of Quaker state synthetic 10-30, What type of filter do I use on my 81 C-120?
I do not have very much experience with hydros,Ive been running 8 speeds for years.

#21 OFFLINE   Trouty56

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:40 AM

Robin....The 4 speed 'manual' trans with 1" axles take a Napa NOS 9815 seal. Maybe it is the same as the hydro. Try to keep that open auto trans in a very clean area. The oil goes directly to the pump/motor from there and then through the filter on the return (I think anyway). I'd clean it good and place it on some clean sheets of corrugated or something. Don't need any dirt in there...

REO....Toro still sells the filter if you want to go that route. Napa 1410 (I'm using my corrupted memory here) will work too.

Bob T

Adams County Pennsylvania

 

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