Windolph in the snow

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Took the windolph out in the snow to pull logs.

[Buzz 502]

That's just plain scary looking! How did it make out?

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Hey Kid, anyway you could get some video of your Windolf posted up here so we can see that thing in action? :thanks:

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,535]

No safety gear on that one eh? No untied shoelaces !

Very cool ol' machine of course.

Mike.......

[Jake Kuhn 1,547]

That thing is plain cool,do have a blade for it to plow with? Jake

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

I'm working to get a video. I wear slip on boots with no laces so there's no chance of getting caught.

[Don1977 604]

I believe I would fab up a set of fenders. wouldn't hurt the looks of the machine.

[eb in oregon 28]

I'm a new member. This is my first post and I wanted to get into this "Windolph" thread as I purchased one last month. It too is a Model C, and I spent a few weeks pulling the drive train, inspecting, replacing, and re-assembling it. As well as trying to repair all the "Mickey Mouse" things. I replaced about one third of the bearings, re-worked the right rear axel stub, as well as most every thing else. I got it out for a short putt around the property yesterday. Now I'm repairing the blade assembly welding up cracks. Without a manual it is tough. I assembled, disassembled, and re-assembled most everything three or four times getting it right. And several things are alright, but I'd do it different next time.

 

And the Windolph originally came with fenders. Someone may have removed this tractor's to help prevent clogging in a clay based soil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2013 by eb in oregon

[AMC RULES 36,945]

   Cool lil' dozer EB. 

[Ken B 3,116]

If you can get some video's up that would be sweet. Cool looking machine, its got the right look for sure. Any idea on how old it is?

[massey 111]

Those things are cool :handgestures-thumbupright: .

[eb in oregon 28]

It does have a pretty good "cool factor," but I'm almost wishing I'd bought a new Struck Magnatrack RS1000. What a job, and I bought it to use, not "restore" into just "a pretty thing." Video's? If I ever figure out how my digital cameras do that, I may submit a video.

 

What I really want to know is how "The Lawn Ranger Kid" got those front axel springs off. There seems a lot of pressure there and I don't know what kind spring compressor he may have used. Because of those springs, and not having a way to "un-wind" them, I left the front axel alone, though I had a few issues I would have addressed.

 

Edited November 20, 2013 by eb in oregon

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

OK i think i know what spring you are referring to now. well the way i did it was kind of a two man job. I did it by myself though. I took a pipe wrench with a piece of added pipe for added leverage and put it on that dog leg piece that the front idler hub is mounted to and applied downward pressure now i tied the wrench down to hold it in this position. then removed the big adjustment bolt that attaches to the dogleg piece. one that was removed i released the tension and the dog leg piece can be removed followed by the spring.hope this helps. i would be interested in seeing a closeup of your dogleg pieces mine have many bad repairs just like the whole machine.

 

I see you have the belt pulley attachment but it is capped off.(housing in front of transmission.) i had to have a new shaft from the clutch to the transmission made. It was much cheaper just to remove the worn bevel gears inside the housing and run a single shaft strait through to the transmission rather than making the gears. So we just capped the hole of where the belt pulley shaft came out.

 

So far i have rebuilt the tracks rear sprockets soon the fronts, idlers, new clutch shaft, repaired final drive gears,  steering clutches rebuilt (new contact plates) new bearings throughout the machine. transmission was repaired still needs replaced. need to somehow repair or replace at least the pinion gear but ideally the ring gear to.

 

I love my machine even though it been a huge challenge and a money pit. Fell in love with it when i first saw it probably 12yrs old. I had to have it from that point on.

 

I would love to see some closeups of your machine : tracks, sprockets, final drives ring pinion, rear axle shafts. were yours starting to twist?

[eb in oregon 28]

A pipe wrench. I'd have never thought of that. "Old School," but effective. Good job. I'll consider that if I ever get to that axel again.

 

Here are some pictures of the adjustment "dog legs" you were asking about. Those "dog legs" are an important and prime adjustment portion of the track adjusting features. As, it  is the only thing that allows the user to apply, or remove tension of the tracks. When you look at it, everything else is basically "fixed" and non-adjustable. Really, I was astounded to discover that those "dog legs" and the accompnying square headed bolt was the only system for doing so. Please excuse the grass in the one shot. It really isn't so huge.

 

 

As for the track gears, they are inter-changable. All four are the same. I measured all four with a scale (as a set of dial calipers is really asking too much for such a machine) and the top of the gear measured 1 inch (approximately) and the bottom of the gear measured 2 inches to the outside of the radius of each side of the bottom of the gear tooth. One gear (was the right front, now the right rear) was a little smaller, indicating that it has a little more wear than the others. As it was on the front, maybe a matter of alignment or track adjustment in the past. But, the difference is really inconsequencial as it is not much different than the others.

 

The transmission is very simple. The cluster gear is available. Any of the other gears may be hard to find and may have to be made. Any of the shafts for the gears and "Top Cover" are easily replaceable, with the exception of the "Main Shaft," as it is a splined shaft. The forks of the transmission "Top Cover" are easily built up with welding. Nothing is impossible.

 

As for axel shafts, if you speaking of the final drive shafts, from the reduction box's, no I've no twisting. I do have a spare, but I'd be loath to let it go.

 

Edit: Oh wow, I think the "Dog Leg" your talking is the front hub casting. It interfaces with the spring and holds the front idler wheel. I guess I was thinking of the "Dog Leg" at the end of the inner front axel support. That holds the square headed bolt that adjusts tension on the tracks. And because of your description of your technique of removing the front axel assembly, there isn't as much tension on those springs as I imagined.

Edited November 22, 2013 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

Oh yea. Where you have a two belt pulley on your drive shaft, I have a "added later" PTO. Whoever installed it cobbeled up a cross member out of flat iron welded into Angle Iron and welded it to the frame. I've a long and sorry story about that thing. However, if I had seen the pictures of yours (seen after the assembly of the drive train), I'd have left the darn thing out and cut out that welded cross member.

 

[squonk 38,906]

That Crosley trans looks a lot like the Crosley trans in the Economy's. Very simple.

[eb in oregon 28]

That Crosley trans looks a lot like the Crosley trans in the Economy's. Very simple.

 

It is my understanding that Crosley used only one transmission in the several models of automobiles they produced. A three speed un-syncronized manual. Apparently Windolf purchased those transmission's for their tractors as they were very simple and small. They did however order them with some modifications. There was no provision for a speedometer. A different main shaft without the worm gear, and the case wasn't drilled for the plug and gear. Other than that the same gearbox.

 

I've read that it was a Borg Warner transmission, but as of yet I haven't found that to be the case. As with the entire tractor, information is lacking.

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Well after looking at the front idler set up you have. I finally understand what is broken and missing on mine.

First of all the collars that hold on the dogleg piece are broken.

 

 

 

 

So the "fix" that someone did can be seen in the following picture. Instead of the collars keeping the track from being to tight, they installed big bolts that pull back on the dogleg. It works and is really handy when I lose a track because i can quickly and easily take the tension off the track. But i don't have any support on the axle shaft I had to replace the axle shaft because it was bent due to the stress.

 

 

 

Another broken part was the big torsion springs. When i got the machine one side was broken. Only option i had was to have it welded. It has held so far but is beginning to crack.

 

 

Another very worn piece was the clutch shaft. I bet you  would not have guessed these were splines at one time! Had to have a new one machined.

 

 

 

Next worn piece I have is the pinion gear. I need some help guys. I need to replace this but cannot find any one that can do it. I would like to replace just the bevel gear not the whole shaft. I haven't been able to find the gear. Anyone know a source that might have it? I have a very good drawing of the whole shaft that I had someone draw up. Anyone interested in making a bevel gear for a reasonable price.

 

 

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Oh here is the drawing of the pinion gear. My plan is to find a new bevel gear. Machine down the old one and weld the new one in place

 

 Please let me know of any suggestions or leads.

[eb in oregon 28]

First, it is quite apparent that your inner axel supports are "toast" and really not worth repairing. As it is the adjustment feature of the idler wheel, I would make new ones. Thick wall tubing of the correct outer diameter (and you can go an 1/8th inch bigger with no problem) and an I.D. smaller so you can bore it out. With a lug made out of 1/2 to 5/8 plate, welded to your new hub, it would work fine. One would need to get a good bevel on the welded part so you would have as close to 100 percent penetration as possible. Then you just weld a new bolt or threaded stock to your new hub. The original is a casting with a bolt welded on, so a fabricated part won't be any worse. I'd do all the locating and drilling and tapping of the hub before welding on the bolt, just so long as you get the angles correct. It can be drilled and tapped afterwards, which is probably safer now that I think about it. You can refurbish yours, welding up the screw hole and moving it a little, and welding on a new rod, but I myself would rather make a new set as then I know exactly whats in them. The outer stabilizer only took a few hours to make, and the threaded portion is 3/4 inch "Thread All". It's just screwed in tight so if it gets damaged or bent I can replace it quickly and cheaply. The "Main Body" of the outer stabilizer is a piece that I made is out of 1 x 2 hot rolled mild steel. It has two pieces of 1/2 inch key stock screwed and super duper lock tighte'd to the main piece. It was my intent to use a full sized piece and machine off the excess, but I ended up using the three piece because after checking with three steel yards, I wasn't buying a 12 foot chunk of 1 1/4 x 2 for only one foot of the necessary material. Anyway, my friend Richard had a six foot bar of the 1x2 that he gave me. The top and bottom of the hole is thin in the wall thickness (less than one thirty second of an inch) with 1 inch stock after boring for the front hub, so the key stock gives it a much thicker wall thickness for the top and bottom of the bore for the front hub. Then with this design I can either replace the key stock or weld some on if necessary. But I don't see that happening within my lifetime.

 

 

As for the function of the inner and outer idler wheel supports, that's all they do. There is zero adjustment in them, realistically speaking. As the front axel is fixed (doesn't move foreword or backward) the inner support just calls for cinching up the foreword nut until it makes solid contact, then you tighten up the rear nut and there you go. The outer stabilizer can be used to jack the hub back, but it does it by twisting the hub. In trying to figure out how the whole thing worked I kept cinching on the rear nut to see what happened. As my older brother was also there and curious, we cinched it a few inches and I noticed the hub twisting. I loosened the nut until it was free, cinched it to contact and left it there. As I have no idea what adjustment is correct for the springs, I merely cinched the front nut back to compress the two springs to a scaled 6 inches and called it "good." Now I've been scheming on how I would make a new axel, and what I could improve. I would think about slotting the bolt holes of the frame a half inch or so, that secure the front axel and two steel blocks that hold the axel to the frame. Becaues "if the frame bolt holes were slotted, one could use the axel to also adjust tension. By "jacking" the axel foreward or backward with the inside axel support, a far larger range of track tension could be achieved. Another supporting plate with just a hole for the bolt on the top side of the frame rail would increase support if desired, but good thick washers should suffice. 

 

That spring looks pretty sad. I'm sure there are some spring making companies in Pennsylvania. Trust me, I too would be loath to need to buy new ones, but really, yours are in pretty sad shape. If one of then isn't quite so warped out of shape it would be easier to figure it out. I'm not up on spring geometry, however with the wire material diameter, outside diameter of the un-compressed spring, number of coils and overall length, and a reasonable idea of how much the spring needs to compress (wind up), a spring maker should be able to make new ones. I'd do some research, write down my calculations, and take all that and the springs to the maker and have a nice chat. Be advised though that small runs of two springs can be a little expensive.

 

That is the problem with spline shafts, when the splines go away, you have to make a new one, as well as make or replace any coupling devices. Gears though can be welded up. Normalize the gear, weld it up, re-machine the teeth, and re-heat treat. I would probably do that in your case. Fortunately my pinion gear (though worn) had more than 1/2 of the teeth left.

Edited November 26, 2013 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

The "Lawn Ranger Kid" said:

 

"Well after looking at the front idler set up you have. I finally understand what is broken and missing on mine.

First of all the collars that hold on the dogleg piece are broken."

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. There is a flat fender washer on each side, on the end of the axel, with the 1/2-13 bolt that the axel was drilled and tapped for. I did go to "Fastenall" for the washers as they stock a thicker washer than the hardware store.  As the casting is a single piece (remembering that the rod is welded on. This makes it a single piece) I can't quite visualize what "collar" you may mean. Other than that I got nothing.

 

Today I removed the entire right side, except for the idler wheel and inner support. When I was working the tractor yesterday the right clutch wasn't working correctly. This morning I pulled the differential cover and upon examination, noticed that the right clutch fork was misaligned. The bottom fork end was interfering with the clutch body. This resulted in the clutch forks binding and not entirely disengaging the clutch. There was some good "polishing" going on. Man, I was irked. I tried real hard to insure that the forks were correctly centered as I had installed a set screw to prevent the shaft from working it's way up and out. One of the problems that caused me to tear it apart in the first place. And, as I had installed a set screw, which I couldn't get too, it had to "come down." The right side also has the twisted clutch shaft installed. I'm going to make a new one. The next two days will be entertaining.

 

I will mention that I may talk freely about "making stuff," which is sort of easy for me. I have a machinist background and a small shop with a milling machine, lathe, gas and electric welding, assorted grinders, saw, press, and hand tools. So, most times I can make a part for merely my time (retired) and the cost of materials, if I don't have a hunk of steel in my "scrap pile." I've also got access to  another shop with much, much more. Just thought I should say something about that.

Edited November 25, 2013 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

I made a new clutch shaft for the right side Actually I made two so that I could make both sides the same. I used a cold rolled steel shaft that went completly through the housing, with a "C" clip on the end so that the shaft couldn't pull out, backed up with a washer and a 8-32 screw. The first few times I worked the clutch to test it, I could feel the shaft twist. I pulled it out, and sure enough, it had twisted. I've ordered new shaft material of 5/8's 4140 (which was supposed to be here today, but no, the holidays have slowed down everything) which I will machine to the same dimensions I calculated for the failed shaft, and heat treat it before welding it to the crank arm for the clutch.

 

 

I made several mistakes. First, not trying to heat treat the cold rolled shaft before welding it to the crank arm. And maybe another for trying cold rolled steel in the first place. The old shaft "Rockwell'ed" out 50 to 55 Rockwell, unfortunately only tested after the aforementioned twisting of the new shaft.The other mistake was that after welding I was real anxious to test fit, so I cooled the shaft assembly with a hose and checked fit. The fit was all I could ask for. However, as the shaft twisted during testing I had to cut it out and start all over. Man, was that weld hard. It took a lot of holding my lips just right, dulling three drill bits, and some grinding to remove the shaft.

 

 

Bottom line? Don't quench parts after welding if there is even the remotest chance you may have to do the job again.

 

And during all this I was worried because sometime in the past, someone had during assembly of the clutch, knocked off a chunk of the top of the bore that the shaft goes into. Right where the 3/16ths key rides. Potentially the key could shift down during use, and it could fall into that broken spot and jam up the whole works. I schemed about pinning the key stock to the clutch throwout arm, or possibly filling the hole with JB Weld. Both seemed more complicated and useless than a good fix. Then the light bulb went off. During assembly I slipped another "C" clip that just fit over the shaft, between the axel case and the clutch lever. These clips are hard, it creates a positive stop for the key, and it just fills the space between the case and clutch lever. I think it will work just fine. Now all I have to do is make a shaft that can stand up to the pressures of the clutch and not twist.

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

I made two new clutch shaft's out of the 4140 after it finally arrived. And that was "fun" as 4140 cuts harder than cold rolled. It took a few passes with an 1/8th carbide endmill to rough it out, then finishing with the 3/16's endmill for the key.

 

I've spoken with two mechanical engineers regarding the 4140 shaft's and both HIGHLY recommended that I get them properly heat treated at a business that performs such work. There are difficulty's with this material if it's not done in a specific manner. Cracking, distortion, and other problems. I've also spoken with people at two different heat treating company's and both said that 4140 may not have been the best choice of material. The last one mentioned two different materials, but I didn't write them down and don't remember what they were. He also thought that the cold rolled might be fine if heat treated properly. So, I've made a new shaft out of the cold rolled, and I've got the two made out of 4140. I'll be taking all four of them in Monday (I hope) to talk, test, and discuss the issue. And NOBODY thought hitting them with a torch and quenching them would be successful.

 

And then there is the issue that these shaft's are welded to the crank arm that controls them in action. As I've already cut the original shaft, and the twisted cold rolled shaft out of that right side casting twice, I'm concerned if I can do it again I may have problems. This morning I cut steel to make two new crank arms from billet steel. That should take a good part of the weekend.

 

"Endeavor to persevere."

[eb in oregon 28]

There is nobody else interested in this? Nobody else has any input? Then what's the point?

Edited December 9, 2013 by eb in oregon

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

I'm following your progress and yes im interested. I don't have a lot of time to post everyday.  I don't know a whole lot about steel. But i would say that it would be a good idea to have it heat treated it shouldn't cost a whole lot either. Ive never had mine out to see if they are damaged. They do disengage the clutches plenty far enough there is quite a bit of gap between the clutch discs. I do know that after i had my clutches rebuilt and new clutch plates put in. The old plates were very warped and did not allow the clutches to disengage because they could not separate far enough.