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vandamja

1979 C-161

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vandamja

Hello,

So I drive into the driveway after work and see the tractor sitting in the yard with the grass partially mowed.

Not a good sign.

I walk in and my wife tells me that the tractor just quit. Running fine one minute and dead the next.

So I go out to survey the issue. Gas..check. Spark plug wire attached....check.

I sit down and crank it over a few times and sure enough, it wont start. The fuel pump is old, so I unhooked it from the carb and turned the engine over and it was pumping gas. I got out a spark tester and hooked it up...nothing. So I have a direction to work in. I start going over things and eventually find that the condenser wire is pulled out of the condenser. In looking at the situation a little closer, my wife had gotten a little close to the hedge and it must have caught the wire and yanked it out.

Hurray.....problem solved. Right?

But now, the tractor, that moments ago cranked over just fine wont do anything. Nothing. Not a peep when the key is turned. No lights. Nothing. I get the jumper cables. Hook them up....nothing.

So I push the tractor into the garage and start lookiing things over. The fuses are OK. The starter will engage if I jump it. The lights will work if I jump the light terminal on the ignition directly to the battery, but if I jump the power terminal on the ignition to the light terminal the light WONT work. I check the voltage at the switch and it it is 12.85 V. I also checked the continuity on both the light and start terminals with the power terminal and it is there. How can that be?

I would suspect one of the safety interlocks, but they don't cut the battery to the lights do they?

Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated. I keep expecting to have an aha moment or a really dumb @## moment when I realize that I unhooked something and just forgot to put it back, but I've been staring at this thing for about two hours and it's not coming to me.

Thanks,

Jim

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C-Series14

Kohler or B&S? Auto or Hydro?

Check the wires to the ammeter if you have one...just a quick suggestion for now...

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vandamja

Kohler K341. Hydro.

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rmaynard

For a start, here's your wiring diagram.

2a17e2ac.jpg

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vandamja

Thanks,

I actually already have it.

I spent a bit more time with it last night. I charged the battery just to make sure that it had a full charge.

I just find it really odd that I have power to the switch, but that not even the lights will work. Is it possible that I am getting 12 volts to the switch, but not enough amps to to even make the lights come on? Or could the switch have gone completely bad? As I mentioned, I tested the continuity with a multimeter, so I know the switch is making the connections it needs, but perhaps it is not passing the required voltage/amps through to make things happen?

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rmaynard

Let's address the lights first since they are totally separate from everything else.

The ignition switch could be bad.

But before you go any further, check all of your grounds. When I had a C-101 (same wiring), I remember that the (-) side of the battery went to the frame. Then there was a ground wire from the frame to the engine cradle. The engine was grounded to the cradle through the mounting bolts. The solenoid gets it's ground from contact with the blower cover.

After you have established that you have good grounds, and your meter check shows continuity from the battery (+) terminal to the battery terminal on the ignition switch, but nothing at the accessory terminal, you've got a bad switch. If you have 12 volts at the accessory terminal but still no lights, you either have a bad light switch, blown fuse, broken wires, bad connectors, or bad ground on the lights. Meter your continuity from the accessory terminal to the fuse, fuse to the light switch, light switch to the lights.

Let us know what you find.

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vandamja

OK.

I'm just sort of talking to myself here, and writing it down as I go so that I have a record.

I will check the grounds when I get home tonight. I can confirm that the battery grounds to the frame and the frame grounds to the engine exactly as you describe.

I know it is not a bad light switch, as I can make the lights work by connecting the light terminal in the ignition harness directly to the positive post on the battery. The lights will come on and the light switch will turn the lights on and off. So I think I can rule out a ground issue with the lights at least.

I would really suspect the ignition switch, but if I jump the battery terminal (light green)on the ignition harness to the light terminal (orange), I don't get any lights. Maybe I am missing something here and that is not how it works?

Maybe as C-Series14 said, there could be something going on with the ammeter? Could it be faulty and passing 12V along but with not enough juice to allow the solenoid to actuate? It would seem that even if the amperage is low it would be enough to make the light come on a little bit.

Aren't electrical problems fun?

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rmaynard

You can check the ammeter theory by taking the leads off the back of it and hooking them together. If it works with the ammeter out of the circuit, you have a bad ammeter.

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C-Series14

I just brought up the ammeter because of something that happened to me many years ago. I was plowing snow, it was dark, and all of a sudden the tractor died. It would do nothing. Pushed it on my trailer, hauled it home, and the next day, tried to figure out why it was dead. Well, after awhile, I looked on the back side of the ammeter panel and one of the wires came off of the ammeter, put it on and it started...drove me nuts!

Try jumping it like Bob said...

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vandamja

I will try jumping it. That and the fuse are the only things sitting between the battery and the ignition harness. Maybe a bad connection at the solenoid for the red wire that brings 12V to the ignition switch?

Can someone confirm that the safety interlocks do not cut power to the lights? I'm 99.9% sure that they don't.

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C-Series14

I'd check but I am 2300 miles from home! :thumbs2:

I have never really noticed I guess. I would say if you have the lights on WITH the engine running, PTO engaged and you get off the seat, the engine dies and the lights would go out. If you just have the key on and the lights on, the safety switches would not affect the lights. That is my guess...

The guys with more expertise AND closer to home will hopefully chime in and confirm or correct me...

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rmaynard

The safety switches are NOT in the light circuit.

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C-Series14

Any update????

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vandamja

Sorry for the delay in the response. I was out of town for over a week for work, and I've been catching up on stuff ever since.

I ended up having a loose wire connection at the coil with the black wire that comes off the PTO safety interlock. So I fixed that. But, at the same time I had unplugged the wire harness off of the PTO safety interlock. So I plugged that back in. When I tried the ignition the tractor started. I suspect that there was a bad connection between the safety switch and harness, as I don't think a loose connection at the coil would prevent the tractor from turning over.

But maybe I am wrong on that.

I did find out that I also have something going on with the seat safety switch. It has never worked, as a person can get off the tractor with the blades engaged and it will still run. I don't have any kids that are old enough to mow, so it was not real high on my list of projects, but since I was checking all the electrical connections I thought I would see what the deal was there. I tested the switch and to my surprise it works. Continuity when it is depressed and none when it is released, so perhaps there is a short in the PTO switch or something. The PTO safety interlock does work, and so does the clutch switch.

It would probably be a smart thing to get a new one.

Thanks for all your help on this. Electrical system gremlins can really be frustrating.

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rmaynard

Glad you found the main problem. :thumbs2:

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